You are not a webmaster unless you know HTML! - this has been an arguement for awhile now (Posted by

You are not a webmaster, unless you master the web.

Ah, very good point. But you must atleast know HTML to master the web.

Maybe you guys are all right. But I have to say that there are a lot of 'webmasters' out there that can do all kinds of scripting, coding, you name it. But they couldn't put a good website together to save their lives. There are so many sites that are hard to navigate, awful to look at and more. It's not necessarily all the technology that makes the sites good - it's a good designer.

Brooke

Hmm,

I guess there's a lot of webmasters out there then

I think a real webmaster would not be an expert in everything but have enough knowledge of many different techs and languages to get almost any job done. So they would know enough to write GOOD html in code, code and setup ASP, CGI scripts, design their own graphics, be comfortable in different environments (NT, Unix), be able to make connections to databases (SQL, mySQL) or at least Access. I guess the most important thing and maybe the hardest to learn would be to know what a good/clean/easy design looks like and how to implement it.

I guess since I'm not a webmaster (I'm a web developer) maybe I've described more of what a web developer should be, I don't know.

Later,
PJ

No i agree! A webmaster should know how to type html in a text file(doesn't actually have to do it that way just know how). A webmaster must be able to use ftp,make graphics that are small and fast loading, Colour schemes (ie no yellow backgrounds with brown text!). Submit their site to search engines and also know how to advertise for their site( link swaps, banner exchanges) could it be I am talking about a web developer too? Arguments please!
~Vy~

I think as a webmaster you dont have to know how to design a page. That's what a screen designer does. As a webmaster you need to know hoe to take the design which your screen designer made and make it suitbale for the web meaning you have to know HTML, but that only a very little part.

By the way: It would be really nice if the screen designers would learn HTML so they would know that you can only use rectangular images, and that you cant expect the normal user to have 2000 fonts installed on their computer.

I like Randall's definition "you are not a webmaster, unless you master the web" but I think the trend goes to more specialization. The web is getting more complex every day, and its getting more and more diffeicult to know all about it.

Later,

Malte

Everyone seems to be describing their qualifications as making you a webmaster. Anyone else seeing this trend in this thread?

Well, the poll says it all. Over 94% of the people here say you must know atleast HTML to be considered a webmaster.

The Web is a network of computers connected via Data lines (Phone, Fiber, Statlite, etc.), Routers, and a few other aspects.

Maybe a webmaster is someone who knows how to administer these things? And not someone who creates the content of the web? (ie html)

I disagree in that I do not consider myself a webmaster (even though I know HTML, javascript(some), xml (some), cf (some) have worked on all aspects of several websites including design, marketing etc..

The reason I don't consider myself a webmaster is simply because I feel the former term is outdated now the internet has grown so much. The word has now been split into several titles such as developper, designer and so. Only when you excel in ALL the former skills could you, if so inclined, call yourself a webmaster.
JP

A screen designers is somebody who designs something so it looks good on a screen @ 72dpi opposing to somebody who makes something look good in print q about 4000dpi. Both mediumd require very different techniques and methods and thus there are you terms for it. The graphic designer is used for the print part simply because its the older part while screen designer is the term for the new job

Later,

Malte

Try using Dreamweaver without knowing HTML. It simply doesnt work, and on the other hand if you use Dreamweaver and you dont learn HTML using it, you're pretty dumn. WYSIWYG will never be equivalent to hand-coding. All they can do, and some are very good at this, help you design a site @ fast paste, but you still wilol have to correct flaws in the code. Example: Dreamweaver's handling of forms sucks, you will have to change the code by hand.

Jospeh, I think a web designer would have to know HTML for his Job. A screen designer just has to know Photoshop @ 72dpi. There isnt much difference between doing something for a TV screen and a computer screen. And try going to a college to become a web designer. They will tell you to become a screen designer with specialization for the web.

I have to totally agree with JP. The term "webmaster" is pretty much a relict of the past. (Although I think its weird that the "boss" (I dont want to say webmaster) of a forum called "The Webmaster Forums" doesnt like the term webmaster)

Later,

Malte

Malte: I never said we web designer doesn't have to know HTML. I actually think they are required for the title to know it. I don't even know how the term screen designer entered the discussion.

And yes, you can get a degree in web design, which is all the cover. Take a look at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute at www.rpi.edu. Really good school in Troy, NY.

Hi,
In my opinion, a webmaster is the master for a web site. He or she is responsible everything to do with the website, the works mainly are receiving feedbacks, moderating the discussions, updating the news section, promoting the site, writing CGI scripts, and also outscourcing projects to other web design firms (if he can't handle the job). That's what I call a webmaster, he doesn't need to know HTML because they are many good WYSIWYG editors out there such as Frontpage(Personally I think it sucks), Netobjects Fusion, or Dreamweaver.

Web developers and web designers may be webmasters but sometimes they ain't because they aren't involved in the website administrion work.

and btw Randall, I think we call that a network administrator, but some of my friends are webmasters and network administrators too.

Later.
Joe Thong

I think its pretty stupid to give somebody a degree in something that is already irrelevant when you could use it. More general studies would be appropriate. Being a good part of lets say the web realted things developing community is to keep up with the developments as they happen.

For me I have to say that in the last 3 weeks I learned Flash, CSS, and dHTML (of course I knew some of it before, I just improved my skills) without decreasing my productivity. I think thats what working on the web is all about. I dont learn Perl because I might need it sometime, but I learn it in an hour or so while I'm working on a project. I never saw the neccessity in havin things fly around on the screen but when the customer demands it you have to do it. So, I bought Dreamweaver, used it for a day, looked @ the source code, memorized the concept behind it, and next day I was dHTML god

So, everybody, keep up with the developments or you will be a relict of the past very soon, just as the term webmaster

Later,

Malte

Yes, a degree at our local college teaches you webdesign in Frontpage... What the hell is that? Why would someone waste 4 years of their life using to use Microsoft Frontpage? Seriously, design is mainly just having creativity, and scripting is logic skills, putting them together and you will end up with at least a decent page.

For example, I learned Javascript in a weekend, and can now do alot of things with it. The next week I learned CSS and implemented that. Coupledays ago a light came on in my head and I thought html + javascript + CSS = DHTML and now I have a firm grasp of that, and am planning on having little men run around my site while you look at it, something like that annoying MS Office Paperclip guy (J/K). Still haven't learned flash, because I do not like the idea of having to pay 400 or so dollars to make a webpage with it, that is just bootleg.

I would never get a degree in webdesign, I plan on majoring in Computer Science just to have that meaningless peice of paper that says I went to college for four years and came to class just enough to graduate.

Go to RPI's website and look up their degree plan. You'll see that you learn more than just "frontpage" Randall. I took one of their classes about three years ago and it was really good.

How could any webmaster consider themselves too be 100% serious if they didn't know HTML. I have taken a look at a few HTML editors and none of them have been able to do the job right. Hand coding HTML gives you total control over your design. I wish that HTML editors didn't exist because then we wouldn't see so much garbage published on the net.

lloyd hass

<Although I think its weird that the "boss" of a forum called "The Webmaster Forums" doesnt like the term webmaster>

I never said I did not like it, but that I did not beleive it should still be as widely used as it currently is...

And anyway, web-developper-and-content-administrator-forums.com does not have the same ring to it...
JP

Exactly my point Lloyd. I wish others were as smart as you. -lol

Lets put it together. The cool thing about Dreamweaver is that you can quickly design good looking pages, but you still can fine tune everything by hand, and the wysiwyg editor wont delete those changes again, which is the big difference between dreamweaver and any other wysiwyg editor. I dont think you can make something really good in Dreamweaver without knowing HTML, but you surely can make something pretty good. BTW: I dont know about the PC version but the MAc version has a very strong and useful direct integration with the legendary text editor BBEdit. Thats really cool, too. And BTW: THink back to the glogan of DW 1.0 "The WYSIWYG Editor for those who think in code" and thats what DW is all about. And another thing. If you use DW and you dont learn HTML doing that you are pretty stupid. Everybody should be able to make association between outcome and HTML if they see what is different after you changed something in the Editor and look @ the source code.

Later,
Malte

Lloyd, I disagree. Although I have a -very- strong knowledge of HTML, I downloaded DreamWeaver for a test and it was great. I designed Web-Reviews (url in signature) entirely with DreamWeaver, just to make things faster, and it worked perfectly for me. I used to code my pages with notepad, because I had tried FP and it bites. A friend of mine recommended me Dreamweaver and I'm using it for all my projects ever since then.

Knowledge of HTML does help to be a better webmaster, but editors like DreamWeaver will work very good without any HTML knowledge required.

Hi,

I agree with Federico, wysiwyg editors such as dreamweaver is really a saviour to the web building community. In my opinion, only two kind of webmasters use a wysiwyg editor, i.e. the newbie and the professional webmasters. the intermediate likes to do hand-coding on the other hand. No offense to anyone here.

Hand-coding is fine when you don't have lots of work coming in. If you want to get productive and get the work done early before deadline, you must invest your money to get a real wysiwyg editor.

I usually design the layout of a website in dreamweaver, because its really powerful for layout design work. You can arrange the layout precisely using css, and later convert it to tables for backward compatibility. Its totally impossible for a person to arrange the layout precisely with tables, we can only leave the job to dreamweaver.

Netobjects Fusion is also great when you want to do things fast. It is suitable for a large but simple site work. You first define the hierarchy of your web site, and netobject fusions will automatically generate a graphical-navigational menu for you. My phpDB site http://phpdb.linuxbox.com/ was created entirely using netobjects fusion except for the logo which i created with photoshop. Even the publishing work is handled by it, you don't need to know how ftp works. FYI I never open up allaire homesite to do the html source editing and this prove that someone can be a webmaster without knowing HTML! BTW netobjects fusion won't let you custom edit the html source that it generates, because it assume that you're a complete HTML idiot who will mess with their generated source code. This is a real pathetic feature, and that's why I never recommended Netobject Fusions to anyone.

Just my 2 cents.

Later.
Joe Thong

I think I will have to say that I strongly agree with the above comment. Just because you can code html in a text editor it doesn't make you cool or super brainy. People that go around saying that people that use editors are amatuers and text editing is the biz is simply wrong. I designed my Intranet page and if I was to do that by text it would take me bloody ages to do. Fair enough the coding is easy but sitting typing stuff all day can be accomplished in 2 seconds in dreamweaver. Dreamweaver is recognised as a Company accepted proffesional editor meaning that proffessional Web Authours,Designer,Masters (whatever you want to call them)can do a good job using this editor. That means that whatever way you choose to use as long as you can meet deadlines, meet targets and specifications to the correct spec your sorted : ).
~Vy~

Saw a bot "reading" this thread and thought I'd revive it back up because it interested me.

What is a webmaster? Can that question really be answered? Do you have to know HTML to be a webmaster?

Does Webmaster = Web Developer + Web Designer?

This year, I'm taking a course on Web Designing which focuses more on the front end of things i.e. how they look.
So is a developer a person who does the backend of things? i.e. the code and how it works

Nowadays, IMHO a webmaster is actually a team of persons that have skills in hardcore server-side programming, client side programming and interaction design and graphic design and even some some server maintainance, as more and more companies host their own sites.

What is a webmistress??

You are not a webmaster if you call yourself Webmaster. I suppose that you could be a webmaster if you call yourself Webmistress.

hmm, ok, so a "Webmaster" can be either a person who is in charge of running a site or, is specialised in an area of making a web site?

Um yeah, here in New Zealand you can study Web Design. Infact, my course starts this Monday (19th January)

As far as education... I couldn't find a degree in anything close to what I wanted. I ended up with an two Associates.. "CIS: Internet Web Design" and "CIS: Systems Programming". There were simply no courses teaching technologies used in creating internet applications.

And for the definition of "Webmaster". I think this term may have similar roots (get the pun?) to "Postmaster". Though, through time, the term has obviously become very vague.

Oh yeah,

the Postmaster... totally forgotten about that one

Postmaster? Somebody want to explain?

There is nothing stopping you from hanging out a shingle on your home and calling yourself a therapist or a physician, either.

Smart clients look for credentials or professional affiliations or a record of proof of competence. Just like any other industry, you can have crooks.

It's better to educate the client than to try to police your "colleagues".

A shingle is a sign. Like the little signs that people who have offices in their homes put out.

That's what this discussion was about, was it?

Megan wrote: Alternately, you could just say that a "webmaster" is a person who is in charge of a site and/or deals with its day-to-day operation. That's all. Could have other people working on individual aspects of it.

I think that Megan's point is the most common interpretation of the title these days. Most of the clients I have refer to the point person who handles communications about the website as the "webmaster", meanwhile there are graphic designers, markup folks, programmers, et cetera who actually do the work.

But he's in charge of that site. He's the webmaster of joeshmoe.com. That's all. Doesn't mean it has to be good.

In this business, some piece of paper from an "educational institution" doesn't make someone a competent web-(insert term here). Just had to add that. A lot of those programs are really far removed from reality of the job.

Sure, anyone who has a site can call themselves a "webmaster". Doesn't mean they have to be good or "competent" as we may define it.

I'll agree with Megan's definition too. Similarly, the postmaster is in charge of keeping the mail server opperational.

I've always understood "webmaster" in a similar way to how I interpret "designer" or "engineer". It's one of those general terms that vaguely refers to some kind of skill or field. It's more useful when the context of usage is clear.

Thats the thing, the usage of the term "Webmaster" isn't clear.

So many different people have so many different definitions for the word...

i would define a 'webmaster' as a person who has built (from bottom up) and is maintaining at least one website. for me 'webmaster' is more like 'website owner'. isn't that the original meaning of the word?

What about someone who isn't proficient in HTML and hasn't built the site, but has inherited responsibility for managing, running and perhaps even updating it?

Moving this to Webmaster's Corner too.

if someone inherited a website?.. ok, beats me

In my opinion, a webmaster is someone who manages a website. I don't think they have to know HTML at all, as nowadays there are plenty of good CMS systems that allow people to work on a site without knowing any code at all! As long as you know what you need to know to keep your site updated/fresh then as far as I'm concerned you are the webmaster for the site.

according to dictionary.com

Quote: web·mas·ter - A person whose occupation is designing, developing, marketing, or maintaining websites.