Web Design Fees - Need help in web design project fee estimation..
Another off the beaten path question---How do you get business?
I live in an area where they are still in the "radio era"--I advertise myself as reasonable but the phone does not ring! I even tried started a directory for the businesses up here (poconobizness.com)
as a "come on" and got 2 clients since March! I give up !!!
Lynn
Carolyn Jones posted this at 17:09 — 13th June 1999.
They have: 327 posts
Joined: Mar 1999
Great answer Chad
Don't give up Lynn
Eric,
Chad is right, don't underestimate yourself, if you offer inexpensive "cheep" services you will attract people looking for cheep --(i.e.. new businesses, get rich quick schemes, people that may not be able to pay you etc....)
The larger established companies (the ones with accounting departments who pay their bills on time) shop for quality rather then price (at least for creative projects) and they have big "budgets" for these things.
I've never seen your work but the range (hourly) for services is huge!!! If I were you I would shop around and see what the other guys are charging who match your skill/talent range.
Lynn,
Your GLOBAL now
do a great job for the clients you have and build up your portfolio, they will come---hang in there!!! There are lots of great ways to market yourself online, hang out here and read some of the related articles/posts on the subject.
take care,
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Carolyn Jones
icq# 5351437
Asymmetric, unique designs for contemporary minds
cds posted this at 00:18 — 14th June 1999.
They have: 359 posts
Joined: Mar 1999
Lynn,
Just remember, this is the WWW. Most of your business won't come from the locals. I just lowered my listed prices, (made me feel better) because of a local who underbid me on a job and then as far as i'm concerned, the quality was shoddy. (Carolyn and I got to cry on each others shoulders about that one and it's probably happened to everyone at one time or another. My consolation is that i visit the site from time to time and laugh!!) ;)The trick is promoting yourself, as was said, developing a portfolio, etc. Web design is a tough business to get listed well in the search engines, but not impossible. Do some research on search engine positioning. A couple sites to check are:
mountainworldwide.com
webposition.com
searchenginewatch.com
Anyway, don't give up!
Eric,
I agree to some extent on prices, although much of my work is done on a flat rate. However, my rates are based on the average time it takes me to do a page. (Speaking of, guess I had better go raise my rates back up again.) Like Chad & Carolyn said though, whichever way you use, don't under price yourself.
As far as payment goes, don't know how others do it, but I ask for half the estimate down, when i'm about half done, I ask for another quarter of the estimate and when the job is finished, I ask for the balance. I also do the majority of the work in a directory on my own server. That way, if they don't pay, I still have control over the site. Clients don't know that is why i do it that way, but, just protecting myself.
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Dan
http://cds-computers.com
Dan
Recycle Video Games Network
Stupidity killed the cat, curiosity was framed!
Anonymous posted this at 01:12 — 14th June 1999.
They have: 5,633 posts
Joined: Jan 1970
Lynn,
We get our customers through word-of-mouth basically. You do a good job for your clients and they will bring you as many as you can handle!
Like both Carolyn and Dan said, you are on the World Wide Web now! Don't worry about the locals! Dynamic Internet Solutions hasn't designed a site for a local yet, because we are based in a fairly small town that is just coming on to the Internet. There is no such thing as large coporation in this town and the small businesses don't yet want Web Sites - but the ones that do want it for under $100 so they go to the High School and have the people in the Mutlimedia class (those learning this great talent we have all aquired) do it for them, usually for free. True, the work is not exactly awsome, but it is free and that is what the people want.
It all depends on who you want to aim your services at. We consider ourselves a professional design firm so we aim ourselves at the companies and corporations looking for a very nice site, easy navigation, etc. which isn't going to be cheap. But it is a fair price in the level of this industry that we compete in. If you have exceptional design talents, your best bet would be to make your rates competitive with some of the "design" only firms (I could give you our rates if you want to e-mail me directly as they are basically the "standard" of the industry). Just look at what type of sites you would like to design and think you are capable of designing. If you are going to charge $2,000, your site had better be better than the kids learning this stuff in High School (no offense meant to them or anyone who designs similar sites but a corporation is looking for something much better).
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Dynamic Internet Solutions : http://www.dids.com
UNIX and Windows NT Hosting
Precisivee posted this at 02:16 — 14th June 1999.
They have: 10 posts
Joined: May 1999
Hello,
This is quite off topic but this is the only forum which I know. I am having difficulty estimating a price for every project that might come to us in the future.
I would be happy if you can show me how you people estimate a project? Hourly? Or just do so without any thinking work?
Thank you.
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Regards,
Eric
Precisive Interactive
http://www.avention.com/
cds posted this at 02:33 — 14th June 1999.
They have: 359 posts
Joined: Mar 1999
One last post, and I'll touch on a subject that Chad brought up. About charging for problems and/or learning something new.
I recently accepted a job setting up an e-commerce solution. I had never done anything like that before, so I quoted a price and told the guy upfront that I would be learning how to do this. (whether your honest is up to you, but I thought it the best way and in the long run, I think honesty will bring word of mouth and repeat business.)
I have probably spent more hours than I could ever pass on to the client learning about shopping carts, accepting credit cards online, etc. Think I'm working for about $3 an hour. The point is though, the next time I can tell the prospective client that this is the cart I recommend, use this credit card processor, take it or leave it and maybe I can make $50 an hour. (A lot of these credit card processor companies give pretty good finder fees, so it doesn't hurt to choose one that does.)
And last but not least, don't forget the repeat business. If you do a good job on a site for a company, you will be the first they call if they decide to expand.;)
Chad, You must live in North Bend, OR (where i live).
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Dan
http://cds-computers.com
Dan
Recycle Video Games Network
Stupidity killed the cat, curiosity was framed!
Anonymous posted this at 02:39 — 14th June 1999.
They have: 5,633 posts
Joined: Jan 1970
Eric,
We charge on an hourly rate. Each design service (cgi/php/asp programming, database programming, html, server interaction, design, layout, concept, graphics, etc.) has its own hourly rate. When a client comes to us for a price estimate, they tell us what they need and they usually give us a price range to work in. We then tell them what we will be able to give them in the price range and whether we can do what they would like or not. Now because we charge hourly, we could run into problems on the way and depending on if they are our problems or something that should be charged to the client will affect the price. Most people looking for a Web Site should be looking at spending a minimum of $2,000 for an awsome site (but usually they don't understand the price range). Nice, clean, crisp, clear graphics. Perfect layout and concept. And the HTML coding. Once you start adding the programming of any type, the price of the site usually sky-rockets to about $5,000 minimum.
As you see - the design market is a very expensive market. There is no reason to offer your services for a cheap rate because it just doesn't work in the market. You have a very good talent that is in high demand and when something is in high demand, the price for it is expensive. Don't be afraid to charge what you think your talents are worth.
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Dynamic Internet Solutions : http://www.dids.com
UNIX and Windows NT Hosting
Precisivee posted this at 03:29 — 14th June 1999.
They have: 10 posts
Joined: May 1999
Hello,
Thanks for all your replies but I still have some questions in my mind. Many clients don't really expect you to use hourly rate since they don't trust on the company. See, we can actually say that we use 10 hours for a graphic but the truth is that we only use 4 hours. That is what causing my problems. I thought to charge basicly:
HTML - $50/ hour
Graphic - $60/ hour
Programming - $70/ hour
And my expected price for every project is from U$1000 to U$5000. This is because I never consider myself or my staffs as unprofessional. I only have high quality staffs in my design firm. Me, myself hav around 4 years experience in designing work but not programming. Here is one of my work - http://eric.albertahost.com/beta/
I never ever receive any projects or requests from my own country before, Malaysia. Here, they just started to know about homepages so this is the right time for me to start one web design firm. As you guys know, design market is an expensive market. That is why very less companies have homepages here. For a very good work, they will at least have to take out MY$10,000 (around U$2500). That is why I started my design service globally.
Right now, I am designing my dad's company web site as latest and the best portfolio and I hope with this web site, more Malaysians will have requests from me. But right now, I targetted my clients from worldwide and globally.
Lastly I am not promoting my design firm but I wanted some comments. Thank you.
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Regards,
Eric
Precisive Interactive
http://www.avention.com/
Anonymous posted this at 17:07 — 14th June 1999.
They have: 5,633 posts
Joined: Jan 1970
Dan,
We do leave in the same part of the country - I am in Utah! We too have had to learn a lot on clients time without charging them. It does make the project a lot harder for a lot less but the next project you can gain your profit because you have all the information you need to do it correctly quickly. I think you brought up an excellent point when you said repeat customers are some of your best - that is very true! Most of the large corporations realize that to keep a site "alive," it has to be redesigned periodically (every six months is what we recommend). If you do a good job for them the first time, they won't need to look further for a new design firm and you will have their business for life - just make sure you keep up with what they will need now and in the future. Oh, and the honesty thing - that is what our business is based on. We only give the facts and nothing less!
Eric,
I did not know that was you! You can contact me via ICQ if you want to talk further. How is the hosting business coming? I think your prices are just about perfect for competition in the market - Your HTML and Graphic prices are perfect but you could raise your programming prices a little.
Don't worry, the reason we don't have the locals is because they too don't understand how we can charge on an hourly rate when another local that designs pages as a hobby will charge them a flat rate of $2 for each page.
I think your expected price range for projects is perfect as well. Like you said, it might sound a little high to those just learning the Internet but eventually they will realize that your rates are very decent.
Just keep up the good work and clients will eventually come. It doesn't happen over night!
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Dynamic Internet Solutions : http://www.dids.com
UNIX and Windows NT Hosting
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