peter@wickware. — Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:19:18 +0000

hi Megan,
thanks, it would be interesting to know how to a href from one section to another using css instead of frames.
i think i solved my scrolling problem for wickware.co.za
i cheated, i added a bottom frame to the existing three index frames,
so now my index page has a left, body, right, bottom--frames,
your help has been fabulous,
thanks,
peter,
peter@wickware.co.za

Megan — Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:03:53 +0000

I just happened to come across this when looking at the CSS spec:

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#absolute-positioning

(how to do a framed effect with fixed positioning).

It will definitely not load faster as frames. The browser is processing the same code but also figuring out how to lay out those frames, and reading the header and title code for each page. Something like that is also really bad for search engines.

peter@wickware. — Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:35:13 +0000

hi Busy,
thanks, i will give both your suggestions a try,
you are right about the frames also,
thanks for the advice and reply, it's appreciated,
cheers,
peter.

Busy — Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:11:27 +0000

If the site owner believes it loads faster with frames you should point them towards some 'frames are bad' type sites (just do search in google for them).
Frames not only take longer to load (there is an extra pages to load), they are not very search engine friendly nor user friendly as they can't be bookmarked ...

The only way to get the full vert/horz window scrolling is to put the framed layout within a frame (very messy).
You should look into CSS and the overflow property on a div, gives the scroll bars without the added files or slower loading times etc

peter@wickware. — Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:01:05 +0000

hi Megan,
yes, you are absolutely correct, it would work better as a regular website, but again the site owner
feels it loads faster with frames, a case of dancing to the tune of the piper.
with the mixing of px with % in the frameset, my mistake, which i will correct, thanks.
just to say thanks for the time and trouble, Megan, i do appreciate it.
peter,
peter@wickware.co.za

Megan — Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:36:20 +0000

The website owner is insisting on a horizontal scrollbar too? That's bizarre. I don't know how you would go about forcing a horizontal scrollbar.

What I'm still wondering is why you've chosen to do this with frames in the first place. This would definitely work better as a regular web page.

I haven't used frames in ages (not that I used them a lot to begin with) so my knoweldge is a little rusty here. I do think that mixing the percentage and fixed widths in the columns attribute is probably causing problems. In the body frameset you're trying to create a percentage height which is a problem with web design in general (because the browser doesn't know whether you mean 100% of the page or 100% of the visible window).

peter@wickware. — Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:19:18 +0000

hi Megan ,
thanks for the amazingly quick reply,
website
wickware.co.za
why we need the scrollbars, 1. because the website owner insists on them.
2. when you see the website, you will notice that the middle section is blank,
which causes a problem sometimes with browsers with a smaller resolution.
the header at the top is visible, but the navigation at the bottom is not,
and without scrollbars it is a problem
thanks Megan
peter.

Megan — Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:06:34 +0000

So, basically, you want it to work like a regular web site, with three sections that work together, correct? If that's the case, then why are you using frames in the first place? Frames are only useful when you want the frames to operate as separate windows, with separate scrollings.

A link to what you've got so far would be useful so we can see what you're trying to do I'm a little unsure as to why you want both a horizontal and vertical scrollbar on it too.