02bunced — Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:50:54 +0000

Just remember there's a difference between being honest and harsh and honest and constructive. The latter will usually make the person feel better about it, whereas the former can often lead to them being dispirited or falling out with out

timjpriebe — Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:44:33 +0000

DaveyBoy wrote: Does this mean you won't add a link into the footer back to your own site?

I'm not sure, as I haven't actually had to resort to that yet. I probably would not add a link into the footer or add it to my portfolio.

Again, I don't use that tactic unless I consider it pretty major. In other words, I really am completely willing to have no one know I did the site if necessary.

mscreashuns — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:43:23 +0000

I completely agree. I would want my friends to be honest with me, so I feel I should return that to them, but I don't know if that's necessarily what they want from me. Some people just want to be complimented and not always hear the truth.

andy206uk — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:46:49 +0000

Panky wrote: Another thing to remember is, sometimes "ugly" sells really well. What we may perceive as ugly by webmaster and designers standards, may not be perceived the same way as your average surfer. As long as the site is easy to read, easy to navigate, and everything works, the design is pretty much secondary.

This is so true! I've seen sales drop in the past after making an ugly site look good!

Also... if this person is your friend, then I think you can afford to be honest with them in a way that you can't with most clients. In fact... I would expect my friends to be honest with me and give it to me straight, but maybe that's just me.

Panky — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:34:47 +0000

If the basics are all messed up, that's one thing. A site needs to have the basic fundamentals down pat. However, if it is just the cosmetics of the site, then play it by ear with the client. You can politely suggest some things that are more appealing to you and see how receptive they are. For others, you can suggest it and then leave it be. Don't try and force your opinions on someone else. If they ask you for your feedback, tell them exactly what you think and most importantly why, but don't force the issue if not asked. Some people just need to learn for themselves. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Another thing to remember is, sometimes "ugly" sells really well. What we may perceive as ugly by webmaster and designers standards, may not be perceived the same way as your average surfer. As long as the site is easy to read, easy to navigate, and everything works, the design is pretty much secondary.

DaveyBoy — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:15:33 +0000

timjpriebe wrote: When I run into a situation like that, I tend to tell my clients something like, "Here's what I would do... But it's your site, so if you really want to do this, I will do it. But I do not recommend it at all." Occasionally I've had clients ask for something I strongly disagreed with, and I told them that I would not be advertising that I designed the site if they had me implement it. So far, that's persuaded them.

Does this mean you won't add a link into the footer back to your own site?

I think I would still do that definitely, I mean if the client likes it...others might too. Maybe i wouldn't add it to my portfolio on my home page or anything like that or provide it as a link to examples when people ask to see them but I would still add my link to the site just because at the end of the day a link is a link and while you might not be proud of the work, more clients can easily come from it.

demonhale — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:18:19 +0000

ditto on tim... yeah as a supporting fact on my previous post, the client came to me for web design work, and what they want wouldnt be my design, but an implementation of their design. I persuaded them even and tried to talk them out to just add some skinning or reorganize the content, but they wouldnt budge... then what I posted above was what I finally did... Hope you can sort out your problems with them soon, since you said hes a friend anyways, theres no harshness when your telling the truth and that it will eventually benefit a friend...

timjpriebe — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 13:04:29 +0000

When I run into a situation like that, I tend to tell my clients something like, "Here's what I would do... But it's your site, so if you really want to do this, I will do it. But I do not recommend it at all." Occasionally I've had clients ask for something I strongly disagreed with, and I told them that I would not be advertising that I designed the site if they had me implement it. So far, that's persuaded them.

Megan — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:56:50 +0000

I think that anytime a client requests something that you know isn't a good idea you have to at least try to explain why. They're going to you for professional advice, you better deliver Even if it's outside of what they're paying you for, you could simply suggest that the design could use some work (and point out why). No need to go on about it, but at least make them aware of the problems.

mscreashuns — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:37:09 +0000

Thanks. I will suggest all of that. I think I am gradually breaking him down by saying that I could get the content much more organized and appealing. We are actually pretty close friends so I'm trying hard not to be too harsh.

Thanks again. I appreciate the advice.