Megan — Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:02:52 +0000

Actually, I've had problems with the Firefox one not outlining things when I tell it to. Moreso than the IE one I think.

That tab previews thing sounds a little superflous to me. I'm a little concerned about vBulletin like interface bloat with all these new features coming in. The extra functionality is really great but they need to keep it simple at the same time.

JeevesBond — Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:39:31 +0000

Megan wrote: Firefox doesn't have a resize to 1024 x 768 in the drop-down by default. You have to type it in every time. It also doesn't have an option to outline div tags.

But it actually works like it's supposed to, unlike the Internet Explorer one! Anyway, once you put those values in it does remember them.

I also forgot the tab previews: Version 9 of Opera shows a little image preview and some information for the tab you've got the mouse hovered over.

Megan — Tue, 13 Jun 2006 12:47:06 +0000

Jeeves wrote: You've clearly never tried looking at a table then! I've found many instances of the IE toolbar not highlighting tables. It also can't do as much as the Firefox one can. Agreed that the Firefox toolbar has more features, I occassionally need to debug something but usually Opera's "Debug with outline" is enough (click the little glasses by the address bar).

The problem I have is that firstly, Firefox doesn't have a resize to 1024 x 768 in the drop-down by default. You have to type it in every time. It also doesn't have an option to outline div tags. Again, you have to put in a custom outline for it to do that. The IE one does all that by default, and when testing you always have to have IE open anyway so it's more convenient that way. Opera's debug with outline doesn't work as well for this purpose because it outlines everything and messes up the base stylesheet. It would be good to just layer on a custom stylesheet that would just outline a few key elements (probably div's and list items, that's what I need the most).

JeevesBond — Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:11:06 +0000

Greg K wrote: I do love keyboard shortcuts.

Have you ever tried Vim (windows version) Greg? It's all keyboard-shortcut. Takes a bit of learning though.

Megan Jack wrote: Try it for awhile and see what you think. Firefox has some advantages - namely the web developer toolbar but I sometimes think that the IE one is better (gasp!).

You've clearly never tried looking at a table then! I've found many instances of the IE toolbar not highlighting tables. It also can't do as much as the Firefox one can. Agreed that the Firefox toolbar has more features, I occassionally need to debug something but usually Opera's "Debug with outline" is enough (click the little glasses by the address bar).

Megan you forgot a few things (or I didn't see them in your posts):

Built in IRC client (useful for running to #ubuntu when you break something!)
Better support for skinning - no restart required and a better interface
Fit to width - force a page into the width of your display
Session support and the option to start Opera where you left off
A dustbin (or recycle bin if you want to call it such), that works across sessions!
Notes
Contacts (although you probably won't see this unless you use the e-mail client)
To expand on those style points: You can use your own style sheet, or the sites. Then on top of either of these options you can layer special style sheets Opera have created. Things like "Debug With Outline" being very useful, Opera for 8 bit computers is also great!
Control Opera through voice, I think it can also work as a screen-reader. Haven't tried this stuff though.

And things upcoming in version 9 (I have it and it's pretty stable, they're doing weekly builds at the moment available at - [url]http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/):[/url]

Widgets support (comics, web cams, notes, clocks, and other widgety things, a screenshot is attached)
Block specific content on any page (if a gif or set of gifs is getting on your nerves on myspace, just block it!)
Disable scripts by page
Change preferences by site (if scripting needs to be disabled on one site or a particular site has referrer logging that stops you viewing an image. You can even make a custom style sheet for just one site that doesn't work correctly)
Add your own Search Engines
Spell checker
Superior code editor. In the first Beta you could edit sites code on the fly. That seems to have disappeared for the moment though. Don't know if they're planning to bring it back

That's all I can think of immediately. Will come back if I think of anything else. What I've found with others I've converted is they keep wanting to go back to what they're familiar with. Once they give it a proper chance, and get familiar with the program they'll never look back. I did the same myself and kept going back to Firefox, but then decided to really learn Opera and now can't use Firefox without cursing it's lack of functionality (bless it!)

So how is your trial going? Haven't run back to what you know yet have you?

Renegade — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 20:19:05 +0000

Greg K wrote: PS. I just notied this, and was wondering if it was a part of the ImageZoom thing I have installed or just built into firefox. I happened to rightclick on an image, and before letting go of the button to have the meu pop up, i moved the scroll wheel on my mouse. The image got bigger. Took me a while to figure out how I activated it. Does this work for anyone with firefox that doesn't have the ImageZoom extention?

I just tried it on your avatar, and it didn't work for me, could it be an extension? I know with Mouse Gestures extension has this feature.

Greg K — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:44:07 +0000

Thank you for the info, I will give it another try (I was using it for a while back when Netscape took a dump with version 6 I think it was).

One of the reasons I gave firefox a try was the developer toolbar, so yes I love that. I only have that, imaze zoom, color picker and measure it installed. I do love the quick access to disable things like CSS, Java and Javascript on a toolbar. I usually have Java disabled, and disable Javascript to test sites. Lately I have been disabling CSS on a LOT of myspace pages. Makes it so much easier to view.

I do love keyboard shortcuts. I am the type of person it drives me nuts to watch someone using something like Word, where they are typing, and then constantly go to the mouse to go through the menus to do something a shortcut would have done.

-Greg

PS. I just notied this, and was wondering if it was a part of the ImageZoom thing I have installed or just built into firefox. I happened to rightclick on an image, and before letting go of the button to have the meu pop up, i moved the scroll wheel on my mouse. The image got bigger. Took me a while to figure out how I activated it. Does this work for anyone with firefox that doesn't have the ImageZoom extention?

Megan — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:30:17 +0000

Just as I'm browsing around - Opera has better keyboard and mouse shortcuts (all kinds of ways to go back for example), and you can customize the keyboard shortcuts. You can set all of your own default fonts, and set a minimum font size. You can disable styling of forms and scrollbars.

The search drop-down includes Google as well as Amazon.com, Download.com, ebay, price comparison and more. Search, dictionary, encyclopedia and translation are available on right click when a word is selected.

ETA: Davey - sure, I like Opera a lot but Greg asked why we like it better. And people tend to think that tabs was a FF invention and that a plugin is required for pop-up blocking. So yes, it was necessary

ETA2: I should add that Opera generally has better standards compliance than most other browsers, and was the second browser to pass the Acid 2 test.

DaveyBoy — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:25:55 +0000

I've used all of them and just prefer Firefox so i use that. I like the extensions idea (unlike Megan ) and it's not exactly hard to keep them up-to-date, just click one button like once a month or something and lett hem download in 5 seconds. I just prefer it. Opera is great too, and yep they did invent stuff but that doesn't mean it's the better browser and you didn't really need to add that into a reply about it's advantages Soooo biased

Megan — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:19:04 +0000

Firstly, there are a lot more features built into the browser. You don't need to install plugins to make it do do extra stuff like mouse gestures, or a notes palette (which I use all the time). The implementation of tabs is better and the window management is far superior. The interface is much more customizable - my Opera layout probably looks completely different from Jeeves'. You can arrange things however you want, install skins to make it look like you want, put shortcut icons wherever you want etc. You can do all kinds of things with custom stylesheets, especially in version 9 so it's even possible to get a site to look like you want it to.

I've been using Opera for so long that it's hard for me to remember some of it's major points! Most of the innovations in browsers lately were invented by Opera. Tabs - Opera, pop-up blocker - Opera, RSS - Opera. Oh, did I mention built-in mail and RSS? The mail client works a lot like gmail. Never delete a message, just filter it to display what you want, however you want. RSS feeds are listed in the mail panel so it's all integrated. I don't know if I'd use RSS if I had to get a separate client for it. The mail client has a good built-in spam filter.

Firefox can do a lot of this stuff but you have to get plugins which I find to be quite annoying. Potentially powerful but annoying to find them, install, and keep up to date.

In Opera, you also have a lot more control over browsing preferences and the interface for that is much more intuitive. I find FF's preference panel to be kind of confusing. In Opera you can also quickly turn off anything that might be annoying - animated gif's, java, embeded audio, cookies etc. Just press F12, it's all there.

Try it for awhile and see what you think. Firefox has some advantages - namely the web developer toolbar but I sometimes think that the IE one is better (gasp!). Opera does have the validator avaialble on right-click, and in v. 9 you can add custom stylesheets to user mode which would enable you to outline certain elements, for example. That's pretty much all I use the web developer toolbar for anyway. I can also see how FF might be easier to use at first because there aren't so many options available. It's simpler, which is also IE's strong point. Opera looks a little weird on start up because they have a lot of toolbars turned off by default (I disagree with this).

Greg K — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:03:48 +0000

Ok, it's going off topic a tad, but since i started the thread, I guess I can do it.

What are the advantages of Opera over Firefox?

-Greg