demonhale — Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:36:34 +0000

Pretty much everything thats posted by jeeves is right, and as a correction for my previous post AJAX should be composed of XML and Javascript, not php and javascript... I was actually thinking of PHP and Ajax is used now most of the time, thats why through the advent of php the evolution of AJAX has been pushed quite faster...

In this light, Yahoo mail beta now has AJAX implementation...

Megan — Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:28:39 +0000

By the way, I hope this doesn't make anyone afraid to post or anything. We do want to make sure that we are posting accurate information here as much as possible. If you're not sure about something, it's okay to say so either directly (I'm not sure, but I think....) or indirectly (using question marks like I did).

Uncertainty can bring a lot of opportunities to learn more

JeevesBond — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:47:01 +0000

Ouch, you lot are getting yourselves in a right pickle!

Megan is correct. Ruby on Rails is a server-side programming language & web framework. The Ruby part of it is the programming language, the rails bit is the framework it "runs" on (arf, arf can you see what they did there? )

Ruby is not to be confused with the W3C technology of the same name, the W3C version is for: "short runs of text alongside the base text, typically used in East Asian documents to indicate pronunciation or to provide a short annotation." Thought I'd include it as I was confused upon finding a section on "Ruby" on the W3C's site!

By framework we mean there's already a bunch of commands and objects and other programming goodies there ready for me when coding begins. There's no need to code how to output html, for example. It's just a case of using one of the bits of rails (which is already coded in Ruby).

Ruby was created by Yukihiro Matsumoto whereas Rails was created by David Heinemeier Hansson (using Ruby). Hansson is the person who wrote the immensely popular http://www.basecamp.com Basecamp is the first debut of Ruby on Rails. Anyone who has used Basecamp before will be aware that the whole application is oozing with AJAX and piles of Javascript.

JavaScript has been around since the Internet equivalent of the Stone Age. Netscape invented it many years ago, it has been loved and villified for creating annoying effects, flashing boxes, pop-ins etc but now with AJAX it is finding a valid use beyond checking whether you've entered the fields on a form correctly.

AJAX is a group of technologies: Asynchronous JavaScript and XML (or XHTML). There are important differences between Ruby, JavaScript and XML. Ruby is a server-side scripting language: All Ruby code is evaluated and executed by the server. JavaScript is a client-side scripting language: It is evaluated and executed by the client, namely the clients browser (Opera, Firefox etc.). XML/XHTML is a document format, similar to HTML. So you use Ruby (on Rails) to generate XHTML/HTML at the server, send it to the client, where it may be manipulated by JavaScript. This JavaScript manipulation might include sending XML/XHTML messages back and forth to the server containing form information from the client, or information back from the server e.g. successful update of that record. For example:

You have a to-do list in Basecamp open. You create a new to-do item, before AJAX you would have pressed "Submit" (or something along those lines) to submit the form and update the list with your new item. This would have meant the whole page disappearing into the ether, the information being stored in a database, then the whole page being downloaded again. Now, with AJAX, JavaScript sits in the background handling the sending of information back to the server (in the form of XML/XHTML) and recieving the servers response. No page reload. The result is the site looks slick, and appears to be running a lot faster as the page doesn't have to be downloaded in its entirety every time some information is submitted.

I think that just about covers everything. Thought I'd make the answer as comprehensive as possible.

Megan — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:31:12 +0000

OldWelshGuy wrote: Demonhale, I know Java and JS are different but let it go when Steve mentioned it, I assumed he was referring to JS, hence the question. I should have stuck to the age old addage 'NEVER assume'

Well, actually, one of the reasons why there is so much confusion is because people do use the terms interchangeably when they don't actually understand the difference. If others are to understand that these are very different technologies everyone does need to use the terms correctly.

Also, from what I understand, Ruby on Rails is more of a programming framework, like PHP???? It does happen to be used in connection with AJAX a lot but is not a replacement for it.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_on_Rails#Ajax_on_Rails

Wikipedia wrote: A separate technology called Ajax, which allows for using JavaScript and XML to process queries by a web browser to a webserver as background processing without loading additional webpages, has been combined with this technology to produce a system referred to as "Ajax on Rails". Rails provides several helpers that make implementing Ajax applications easier.

So RoR and Ajax are complementary technologies, not competitive.

Check your facts before you post (not just you, OldWelshGuy, there are three instances in this thread alone. Demonhale said that AJAX uses PHP which it doesn't). And anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I did look it up!

OldWelshGuy — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:17:10 +0000

Demonhale, I know Java and JS are different but let it go when Steve mentioned it, I assumed he was referring to JS, hence the question. I should have stuck to the age old addage 'NEVER assume'

The only crossover I could see between CSS & JS was in menu creation etc, which was why I commented on it.

As for Ajax being old hat, the only competition to it (and it is not really competition) is RUBY on RAILS. Only glanced at this, but it sure is powerfull, and FAR easier to script than AJAX (it doesn't do much to the kitchen surface cleanliness though)

demonhale — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 03:24:52 +0000

Actually Read my post, and as I said before and explained a little bit its two different things...

SO if you want to discuss about AJAX, theres an AJAX thread already...
javascript is a script...
java is from SUN and a programming language with its own plugin...
AJAX uses most of the time a PHP and Javascipt(js) Combo... and for MS they have there own before the JSscript, almost the same as javascript...

and I hope were not hijacking the thread...

JeevesBond — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:38:02 +0000

steve40 wrote: Ajax was cooked up by the Black Google, and it's axis of evil to ruin MSN anyway. So I think it is Bill, is not going to support 1 hair of it.

You've probably not seen http://www.live.com then Steve. AJAX all over the place, MS are jumping back on the Internet bandwagon again. And yes, it is a household cleaner

As for the original question: I agree with Busy and Megan. The two are entirely seperate things. There are some areas where they cross-over, but generally JavaScript is for "doing things" while CSS is for formatting - to make things look the way you want them to.

Good results can be gained from using the two together, swapping page style sheets for a different look and feel is a good example, or change the styling of a single element (to change a border color or background dynamically for instance).

steve40 — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:34:39 +0000

I really don't know about Ajax, I thought that was a household cleanser anyway. All serious, I have heard it's not all it's cracked up to be. Ajax was cooked up by the Black Google, and it's axis of evil to ruin MSN anyway. So I think it is Bill, is not going to support 1 hair of it.

Megan — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:35:56 +0000

Java is not Javascript. Don't get them mixed up. Java has nothing to do with Ajax.

I'm a little confused by the original question actually. Javascript and CSS are meant for two totally different things. CSS makes things look pretty, Javascript makes things happen (actions, events etc.).

What was the context of that quote? Maybe someone was referring to using Javascript to do things like mouseovers that can be done with CSS (???)

OldWelshGuy — Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:30:54 +0000

Steve so if IE does not support any Javascripting, how is that Likely to impact on Ajax? Forgive the question as I am not that up on IE.