taff — Sat, 07 Jun 2003 12:31:17 +0000

I think that you are getting such a broad, varied, and somewhat subjective set of responses because you've asked a very broad, varied, and somewhat subjective question.

"What defines a good design?"

On colour schemes, Suzanne is right in saying that the nature of the site has a lot to do with this. Bright reds and yellows may work well for a circus troupe but would definitely be out of the question for a funeral home. These are two extremes but you get the idea.

On the other hand, don't be too much of a slave to the colour wheel. Experiment a bit and push the envelope on occasion. Otherwise we'd end up with a rather boring Internet where *every* banking site looks the same, etc. Of course, with experimentation comes failures and bad ideas. Like any creative field, you need to be prepared to look at what you've done, say "yuck!", scrap it, and move on. As already mentioned, use the client's existing colour scheme where possible. This can be a challenge sometimes but at least the colours will be one thing the client can't complain about!

"Clean and simple" is my motto for business sites or, as Busy says above, "less is more". But once again, it is hard not to be subjective here. Styles differ, tastes differ, client expectations differ. I try to ensure that a prospective client has viewed my portfolio before we get down to anything else. For better or worse, that's what I do - still interested?

To quote Neil Young, "That's my style, man!"

I disagree with dk somewhat when he says that other factors have made what we do evolve into something beyond basic design. Usability and "structural integrity" have long been principles of good design that predate the Internet. Ask any architect.

One more important element in the mix is some sort of natural tendency to *know* good design, to *know* that two colours work or that a particular font clicks. This I think is somewhat innate. While there is certainly much that can be learned along the way, I think that a lot of it boils down to how many of your cylinders are firing on the right side of your brain as compared to the left

Busy — Sat, 07 Jun 2003 04:31:44 +0000

Just for the record I didn't say don't use CSS, just make sure the site is useable without it - for people with disabilites or browsers that dont support it.

As for colour, base it off the companys logo or letter head if that fails use netural colours (think of colour-blind people)
when you say 'grey' nav and 'blue' header, is very hard to visualise as there are so many shades of each colour - blue and grey remind me of microsoft

Suzanne — Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:50:04 +0000

*ahem* I did not give you a subjective opinion. unfortunately "good design" is relative to the content of the site.

Blues, greys and greens are very corporate colours (subtle reds and yellows as accents). In North America, anyway. Colours are different in other regions of the world so your audience is very important.

But the TYPE of business is vital -- if you're talking banking, look at the banking sites. The ones who emphasize customer service have warmer colours, the ones who emphasize profit have cooler colours, the ones who focus on trust issues have more monochromatic warm colours, et cetera.

It's pointless to discuss colours and other VISUAL design issues without knowing more about what you're doing.

nike_guy_man — Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:40:31 +0000

Well you all answered the question "what is good design in your own mind" but you didn't answer any of the questions I asked.. is it navigation? color scheme? (except Busy, who gave a good answer)
What type of colors should I use for a site that will be used by businesses?
I'm thinking a deep blue header with gray nav and white body with a blue outline... what do you think? If you were using a system every day, would these colors help you see things easily?
It's not something that has to catch their attention because they just bought the system, they are going to come back to use it.
Thanks

brady.k — Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:56:14 +0000

your site not only needs to look good on your computer, but across the board. i recommend using the XHTML 1.0 standards, and using their validator to..well, validate it (http://validator.w3c.org). this ensures that your viewers will be able to see it like you want them to.

quite the opposite of Busy, i suggest that you use CSS. its not hard to learn or manipulate, and it ends up helping you in the long run. instead of typing

<table width="100%" height="100%" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="2">

' everytime, you can just type <table class="mine">' whose attributes you had defined using CSS. it you are going to use CSS, use external style sheets, as you can update them and change the whole site and not just the page.

on the rollover note, images are easier to do using a combination of javascript and css. but if it's just text, definitely use the a:hover in the style sheet

dk01 — Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:32:58 +0000

I think that sometimes webdesign and standard design are different but people try to force them together. I guess what I mean is that if a peice of artwork communicates a certain feeling (intended that is) to viewers then the design has been effective. In webdesign that is different. Just because your site looks good and commuicates to users doesn't make it good design. There are so many underlying factors in webdesign that go into a good site design that really its not design anymore. Its something else... guess we need a name for that.
my 2c.
-dk

Busy — Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:47:03 +0000

Sometimes less is more

my definition of good design is a practical one, easy on the eye, easy to navigate, easy to find what your looking for (content wise), universal (meaning works in any browser in any size for anyones browser set up).

testing for good design? disable CSS and JavaScript in the browser and see if you can still do the above with it, if you can, then premo, if not then back to the drawing board.

BUT everyone is different, this is just my 2cents worth

Renegade — Fri, 06 Jun 2003 05:14:22 +0000

To me good design is not just everything fitting together it's everything fitting together in a logical "user-friendly" way. Things need to fit in intelligently.

Good design depends on the eye of the beholder, you can't really say that it's good because some people will surely disagree with you.

Roo — Fri, 06 Jun 2003 02:13:22 +0000

To add to that:

Good design is done as a 'whole'...I mean when creating the imagery and thinking up the layout you need to have the content in mind always. Which bits of text will need to be stronger for example. Don't do the images and then try to plunk the text content into it. Don't place the text and then try to squeeze the imagery in. Trust me it doesn't work well. Rather try to keep the image of the finished prohect in your minds eye all the time while you're working on it.

As far as navigation and colors that would be decided by what the site is and whom will be using it. I mean a lawuers site would want to be clean with muted tones, not like bright orange. A site to be used by the elderly would need simpler navigation than a site that would be used by the young and saavy.

On the other hand, a gamers site could work with the brighter more vivid colors.

Suzanne — Fri, 06 Jun 2003 00:53:47 +0000

Good design incorporates appropriate style, helps the user find the information that s/he requires, pushes the user (gently) along a path, but accepts that they may choose to jump to another path and doesn't lose them along the way.

Keeping ample white space, keeping grouped items closer to each other than to other groups, appropriate colours and styles for the subject matter. That is what good design is all about.