necrotic — Mon, 25 Nov 2002 01:34:40 +0000

Ya, vB can be hard to edit. But once you get the hang of it then it becomes easy. It's fun to make vB look totally different than it's supposed to, though

Mark Hensler — Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:58:30 +0000

That's why its a real pain to edit templates. You have to remember where tables start and end and which templates are in which other templates... and.. and.. yeah.

Megan — Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:42:40 +0000

Oh, wow, I didn't get into this before, but Opera can do all kinds of neat stuff in User Mode (user mode basically removes all table backgrounds and replaces the stylesheet with the user-defined stylesheet). Two good ones are "emulate text browser" and "accessibility layout" - good to know what people using those devices will see (and probably what screen readers will do).

"Show structural elements" (block level tags) and "debug with outline" (shows borders of table elements) will also come in handy for debugging. Man, there's a heck of a lot of nested tables on this page!

Abhishek Reddy — Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:57:47 +0000

Try changing default font color.

TWF uses browser default. But as Megan says, that's a good thing (usercentric).

Megan — Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:04:36 +0000

Quote: Originally posted by Busy
ollet, in opera you can turn off tables, CSS and images, but just turning off tables can be fun if your bored lol

Wow, I didn't know about turning off tables! I'll have to try that one Just for fun... I do switch to user mode sometimes, but mainly on sites that have miniscule font sizes. Sure, it doesn't look like what the designer intended but quite frankly that's their fault for making their font sizes unreadable.

I don't think anyone should worry about users turning sites into a mess with such controls - that's totally contrary to user-centered design (meaning that the users should have control over their own browsing environments. If I want to turn off images that's my perogative). The ability to use a custom stylesheets is an accessability issue as well.

Re: the background colour thing - it's so easy to forget to put in a bgcolor when you're keeping it white (sorry, background-color now ) I guess this is something that some of us need to pay more attention to.

Renegade — Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:37:56 +0000

wow that's interesting! well lucky i hardly ever fall into that catagory, one of the first things i do when making a site is to set that background colour so i'm safe hehe...

taff — Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:23:43 +0000

Aye. This is something I'm absent-minded about myself and one of the few things I find Dreamweaver handy for. I've caught many a missing bgcolour that way.

zollet — Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:26:35 +0000

My point is that IE's default background color is whatever color you select in your desktop theme. Now that I've selected a different color I can easily spot sites that don't have any background color set

PS. And it's scary to see how high that number is.

The Webmistress — Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:38:28 +0000

I have tried that before and it's just scarey tho think that someone could be seeing your site as a right mess!! LOL

Busy — Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:11:33 +0000

I have had my background set to grey for ages
IE's default is white, NS is grey I believe

Zollet, in opera you can turn off tables, CSS and images, but just turning off tables can be fun if your bored lol