Suzanne — Sun, 19 May 2002 22:08:26 +0000

I think you're just having us on, Niqueco...

niqueco — Sun, 19 May 2002 07:49:03 +0000

Suzanne — Sun, 19 May 2002 06:31:14 +0000

I agree, the users are the most important, and least considered. Poo!

I've always gone for big pixels... heh!

Mike Feury — Sun, 19 May 2002 05:53:44 +0000

Quote: Originally posted by Suzanne
Go big, or go pixels, I suppose.

Unfortunately, you're probably right

Pity Zeldman didn't mention Users in his comment

Quote: Most designers (and most clients) favor smaller type

- might also be relevant what they favor

Got to say I don't think much of Brigg's comment

Quote: I can't tell you in calm language how moronic I think putting a font sizing widgit on a page is. I can't think of anything that better screams 'designer failure' and 'this medium is not ready for prime time'

- smacks of 'control freak' to me

My monitor has brightness & contrast knobs;
My sound system has a volume-control knob;
My windows have adjustable drapes;
Some of my lights have dimmer switches.

Are these also designer failures? I think not.

It's a pity that there seems to be biases in most of the "expert" commentary I've read on this topic. Either a bais towards control [eg Briggs] or a bias against aesthetics [eg Nielsen].

Oh well - it's no-win for now, got to make the best of it

Suzanne — Sat, 18 May 2002 20:50:50 +0000

[url=http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0502c.html#purtypink
]Zeldman[/url] and Owen Briggs discuss the pain of using em. And why px are still the best option out there if you want to use undersized text.

Go big, or go pixels, I suppose.

Suzanne

Suzanne — Fri, 10 May 2002 03:33:25 +0000

I'll ask again, Niqueco, what browsers are you using that are rendering pixel units so badly? What size is your monitor that you have at 1280x1024?

I disagree that px are the worst, but we've been there.

niqueco — Fri, 10 May 2002 03:19:31 +0000

If all browsers implemented CSS2 correctly, from worst to best:

px
pt/cm
em - percentage
medium/large

But Explorer 4 and 5 defined "medium" as , so they destroyed the posibility of using them. Units pt/cm have a great thing in favor, they adapt to the display. I use a 1280x1024 display, it has a resolution of 100dpi. A pt specified font-size will ignore my settings, but at least it will be shown as the author intended, not as an ilegible spot of tiny pixels. But Windows and Mac, instead of using the real dpi value they use an invented one, which is different for Macs and PCs. This reduces the niceness of these units. So em's and percentages are IMO the best option.

For those who speak in favor of forcing absolute pixel sizes to the users and say that relative=too hard, the old was a relative measure, very similar to the "medium", "large" keywords.

nicora — Thu, 09 May 2002 06:37:24 +0000

I only read the first post...

My opinion, 11px

Why?

compatible in NS 4+ and IE+

I like 'em little

Somebody told me 8pt doesn't work, they were right...

Suzanne — Tue, 07 May 2002 20:04:29 +0000

Quote: Originally posted by Mike Feury
You mean it's not like standard page zooms where everything gets enlarged? If only the characters get enlarged, whoa!

Mind you, it might force the correction of a flaw [IMO] in many web pages - insufficient white space. Too many large blocks of text, all jammed up against the margins.

I use line-height: 150%; for most. I suppose I could use line-height: 1.5em;, which I used to do and I don't remember why I stopped. I think because I went to using px for line-height, then found the zoom problem, and then went to percentages, leaving em behind in the dust.

I change it depending on the size of the text I'm dealing with (default) as well.

If you use px for line-height, when someone zooms the text in Mozilla or N6, the text overlaps as the line-height remains unaffected by the text zoom.

Mike Feury — Tue, 07 May 2002 05:22:49 +0000

Wow, you're on the ball Suzanne - replied before I had my next post done. You'll definitely outplay also ...

Quote: Does that alleviate the text zoom issue for IE 5/PC?

I have no idea. Still just learning this stuff, haven't got to that whole zoom thing in any depth yet.

Quote: the text zoom will have catastrophic effects on line height as it gets bigger (text overlap).

You mean it's not like standard page zooms where everything gets enlarged? If only the characters get enlarged, whoa!

Mind you, it might force the correction of a flaw [IMO] in many web pages - insufficient white space. Too many large blocks of text, all jammed up against the margins.

Quote: I'm glad you clarified em instead of percentages for text.

I'm not at all familiar with the detailed quirks like you are, but I've read that percent for font is less robust than em - so since they mean the same thing, I'll go with em.

It's mainly an organizational thing for me. I'd surely confuse myself using percent for both font & layout, plus using different units should speed debugging too.