Megan — Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:14:32 +0000

Oooh, nice textures! You don't see those too much anymore - probably since they were used so badly in the past people just decided to stay away from them. That's not a bad use of frames, and I've seen other sites that have put them to good use as well - I guess it's just a matter of using the right tool for the job.

Welcome to TWF, by the way. Stop by our introducitons forum and let us know a little more about yourself

brighthand — Mon, 04 Feb 2002 04:29:28 +0000

Greetings. Hey, my first post here!

Anyway, I'm not typically fond of frames either mostly for the reason that most people have no clue how to use them and, overall, they make the site ugly. That being said, I use frames on my site I use them purely as a design tool. Check it out at http://www.abudokan.com. I could probably achieve a similar effect with tables but it wouldn't be the same feel.

detox — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:12:15 +0000

Majority rules!

Frames are probably the thing I like the least with regards to the web. I think everyone has at least 1 bad frame-laden site deep down in their closet!!!

Go with tables.....

Megan — Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:25:41 +0000

Yes, I think there definitely are some cases where frames are the way to go. I develop online courses, for example. These courses are shipped out on a CD with some sections connected to the web to access continuous updates and interaction etc. Because they're on a CD we can't use server side technology for navigation (and they're sent out on CD because we don't want to force the students to be continuously connected to the internet while going through the course). And obviously we're not worried about search engines since people have to pay to take these courses! So, frames allow us to easily keep the navigation updated without too much trouble.

I've also seen sites involving long lists of static information that works well in a framed environment (can't think of examples right now - well, I had one but they changed the format)

I think the best bet is to design your site so it works with or without frames. So you'd have at least a back/home button on the main pages which would allow the users to get back to a list of options on the front page, but would also give them the option of keeping that list visible in a frame.

Busy — Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:13:21 +0000

Welcome
I personaly dont mind frames, if done right, I think most people dislike frames because so many people have abused them. frames (if done right) have a lot of pros and cons

if you dont have access to server side on your host, its easier for naviagtion
but is also harder for people referencing your site (or page - not everyone starts at the index if referred)

search engines - as mentioned isnt going to get you a good rating, but if its a personal site you dont really care about ratings anyway

time, framed pages probably take longer to make, as the content section still really needs a tabled layout, so your doubling your work load. (3 pages to make one screen layout)

keep in mind, its not what is easier for you, its what is easier for your visitors, its your visitors that view, recommend, search, bookmark etc your site. Sometimes you have to bite your lip and go against your own likes/dislikes.

worst thing with frames is setting side section to no scroll, people that do this usually make it on a large screen size so the small fellows dont get to see whats at the bottom of that frame, but as Mairving said, its people that dont know what they are doing.

I guess I'm no help lol, but Welcome anyway

Shotaker — Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:00:35 +0000

Yeah. Frames suck.

The Webmistress — Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:01:11 +0000

Welcome to TWF,

Frames don't help if you are trying to get good placement with the search engines, you can but it's harder and most designs can be made to work well, if not better without frames, especially if you use SSI so that updating is made easier/quicker.

mairving — Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:56:57 +0000

Hi Winnie. Frames are one of my least favorite web things. I personally think that they are a bit dated. Originally they came about to make it easier for people to update their sites. But with server-side includes, I really don't think that they are neccessary. They are also hard on search engines. People tend to use frames nowadays for
-obscuring their source code.
-obscuring the website source.
-people don't know what they are doing.

The only thing that I can think of that a frame can achieve better is to have a nice footer on the site. It would be nice if you could say and that would work to make your footer always at the bottom of the screen no matter what resolution. But it doesn't work.

DC_Sara — Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:46:42 +0000

Hi Winnie, welcome to TWF! I'm new here too...it's a great resource site!

I personally don't like frames, so I would use the tables.

I have used frames in the past and to me it's too complicated to fix or create something when you are tired and you are coding frames. Heh.

Sara