Thanks again everyone

Karen Cardinal — Wed, 09 Jan 2002 17:34:19 +0000

Once again, Thank you everyone for the great advice!

So far the site seems to be going over very well with the artists who have work on it.

btw: Thanks for suggesting I change the "New this month" link. I think the new look is much better!

Quote: Originally posted by Busy
...but how about an old victorian styled layout,...

Hmm... I was talked out of the "home-made" look with the lightly textured background and fancy "Snooty" fonts on the old design. Now I'm being talked out of the graphic design on this one.... I can't win.... LOL.

I do take your point with the injection of color though.
I'll try playing around with different designs to see what looks right. I just don't want any design that overpowers the art (that is what the site is about).

mmi
Wow! Such great help on the really hacked together wording I've got.

You really don't know how helpful this is. It can be quite hard sometimes trying to be a webdesigner, code writer, copy editor, web promoter, art restorer (you'd hate to see what some of the submissions look like when I get them in), plus trying to find time to draw my own artwork and be mom to an 8 year old boy.

I know... everybody does it, but it can be very hard to keep up with sometimes.

I am looking forward to implimenting some of these changes.
I have 4 artist waiting to have their pages posted, one artist that needs her bio updated on her lesson, and I have to put a rough draft together for next months challenge first.

I will definately be fixing that wording though. Thank you for the help!
If you are interested in exchanging your copyediting services for a lot of free publicity (I am poor... you see how much money I charge for my site), please email me. I appreciate any help I can get.

Now if I could just find a reliable way to do my navigation, I'd feel much better. The iframes-drop drown box seems to work fine EXCEPT for a few browsers that push the drop down off the page.

AAAAARRRRGGG! I just need one more type of browser to deal with to send me up a water tower with an uzi. :explode:

I guess I'll go jump in the snow for awhile and the solution will come to me.

Thanks again everyone!
Karen

mmi — Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:31:52 +0000

on PastChallenges.html

try something like this to get better alignments on those blurbs - at least close the cell on the same line as the listThese are the original chaall the others.</font></ul></td>'on ChallengeGallery.html

"See" the Benefits of being a - something else?, e.g., "Check out"? - gives a better line break too

on teachers.html

easy to understand - you might hyphenate this

(or have an idea for them), please email me

designed to show some of - capitalize "designed" - or maybe just "Some of the basic..."

"one" class period.

maybe "Showcases students and teachers who have used our lessons successfully in the classroom. Also a place where students can share their experiences using the lessons."

For teachers who [delete]would like to[/delete] register - so far, you've only capitalized "teacher" in headers

on Forums

that that

to make the site better?

opinions and reviews (and again later - with an es, too)

of [delete]the[/delete] participating artists

oh no! - not mugs and shirts

ya might wanna cut out some 'a those "the CP Challenge" references in these blurbs - gets repetitive

an easy way to do that is consolidate these boards - I'd treat 'em like mailboxes - no need for too many at this point

on Products

All profits from these products go to - this is excellent - I'd try t' mention it on the front page

on Exchanges

I'd get the wrap out 'as this<h2 color="black">The only Color Pencil exclusive banner exchange!</h2>'specify a slightly smaller font-size?

and form a supportive and fun community.

I'd add ?'s t' those blurbs

on Links

Don't forget to Bookmark and Refresh this page.(?)

I appreciate the spirit of your comments on this page, but I'd say they need rewording - have a hack at it

an amazing group of talented artists

that reminds mme - you said you didn't know where to remove periods on the blurbs up front - have a go at them too - leave 'em all if ya want

more later - looks like you may end up owin' mme lunch after all :eek:

Busy — Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:23:01 +0000

Quote: Leave it to me to fall in love with a 1930's pallet of pink and grey accented by maroon and dark green

It may/may not work, but how about an old victorian styled layout, could probably get away with what you have now just add some framed (picture frames, not html frames) around your colors using the maroon, dark green and of course gold (maybe small amount of black as well). There are even fonts that are similar to the designs in the old frames (forget what they are called), if your interested I'll get the name of the font for ya, or even send it to you (have to look thru 800 of em lol)

I see similar to Disaster-masters screen shot, except less

can't drive mme nuts - somebody already gave mme a ride

mmi — Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:10:12 +0000

hey Karen - you're more than welcome

I appreciate yer offer to compensate mmy efforts - I'm a LOUSY capitalist and seem to end up either in trouble or nowhere at all in my clumsy attempts at self-promotion

at the risk of violating understandable forum rules about advertising, mmy rates for editing are $12.-15./hr, depending on complexity (proofread -> rewrite) - if that range seems narrow, I make up for it by rewriting slowly

since you were so nice about thanking mme, I'll offer to do the rest of the site for free (doesn't look too big), IF you tell yer friends what a wonderful and highly-skilled person I am - I'll post any additional suggestions today or tomorrow

Cathcart: "Say nice things about us"

Korn: "Tell 'em what a good job we're doing!"

Megan — Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:40:38 +0000

I agree with the others about the grey. What you could do is make a patterned tile just for the border around the content area. Make the pattern look like coloured pencil drawing. Overall I'm thinking that the design really needs more colour. I can see the dark green and maroon in the logo and navbar but they are very dark and really don't stand out as coloured elements. The white paper on pink is fine - I wouldn't say that you need to change that but the logo and navbar elements could really use some more life.

Definitely get rid of those grey boxes in the content area. I would also like to see a more consistent layout from page to page and less boxiness overall. Page headers should go above the related content, not in the top-right corner. They should have a stronger physical relationship to the content associated with them. Maybe try putting a collage of artwork in that area instead, fading out to the left where the logo is. Also try putting the logo in a more interesting font - it's kind of dull looking right now.

Links page - major problem here because the main content is way down at the bottom of th epage. Lose the chatter and move the directory part up to the top.

disaster-master — Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:33:28 +0000

Hi Karen,
I remember the old site. Do I get a cookie for having a good memory(for a change)?

I think I have a feel for what you are trying to do here. The colors aren't too bad but it does seem a bit dull as everyone else has put it. I am sure that you don't want to have to re-do everything but it does need something. First thing as far as your graphics....the rollover color for the links at the top definately need to be darker. They almost disappear when moused over. I am not crazy about the dropshadow that you have for the "learn something new" in the top right corner. A more "spify" font for the logo would be nice...maybe soemthing that looks like a colored pencil writing.?? Might want to change all the table backgrounds to the color that they will be after they load. As it is now, everything is gray and the colors appear in spots as the pages are loading.

Below is a screen shot of the top right corner section. I am seeing several little light green places...not sure what they are. Red arrows pointing to them. Also, the drop down thingy goes off my screen. BTW, I am using IE 6.0 800 X 600.
removed image

I can tell that you have put loads of work into this site. I think you have done a wonderful job of putting that much info together.
removed image

Thanks everyone!

Karen Cardinal — Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:17:31 +0000

Thank you so much everyone for the great feedback!
That's why I enjoy it here (whenever I get a chance to make it).

Everyone seems to agree that the colors are too dull. The only problem is that the drop shadow effect I'm using to make it look like a white paper sitting on top of a pink paper would require quite a bit of work in order to change the background color.
Leave it to me to fall in love with a 1930's pallet of pink and grey accented by maroon and dark green. Of course, my problem may be that my old monitor is only 16 bit color, so I'm not getting the saturation some of you may get.

Busy,
Oh, I wish I knew why the navigation drop box doesn't work for you. (I use a Mac, so I'm seeing something different)

This is what it's supposed to be: I have a drop down box for each section of the site that lists all the pages in that section. Beside that is a graphic that says "Pages in this Section". This shows up in an iframe on each page directly under the section/page header.
I previewed it in IE, Netscape and Opera on my Mac and it seemed to work beautifully. For browsers that would show iframes the "Pages in this Section" graphic appeared with the arrows beside it that turned into a drop down box when you clicked on it. For non-iframe browsers an easily definable link was there saying "More (whatever section you were in) pages". Clicking on that text took you to the page the drop down box was on.
I'm not sure what I have set wrong for your browser... arrrrggggg! Darn bleepin (explative deleted) cross browser problems.
I decided to go with an iframe because I couldn't get a single nav bar to be called up from another page and still look right on all the browsers. With 362 pages on this site (at current count) I have to use a navigation that can be called in from outside the page. There is no way I could possibly update every page in a section every time I add something.

btw: If I could get the drop down box to show up right for you, there is one on every page (including the artist's individual pages)

mmi,
Thank you soooooo much for the help with the copy!!!
Can you tell I am horrible at spelling and grammar.
Now, how much would you charge to check the rest of my site for me?
I made the changes you suggested and it really does read better now.
I also dropped the redundant "Copyrite". I don't use it on the other pages anyway, so I was just being sloppy leaving it on the home page.
I didn't change "...the art of color pencils." just because that is a catch-phrase I've been using for a few years now and even though it may not look right (and may drive a copyeditor nuts), I'm pretty much stuck to it and have always had to use it somewhere on my sites.
I also didn't drop the periods simply because I am so bad at grammar, I wasn't sure where I needed to drop them and where I needed to leave them.

Thanks also for mentioning the layout with the backgrounds. This is my first attempt at such a complicated layout, and even though it looks like it should be easy to do, trying to get each layer to show up correctly without using any fancy tricks which would kill cross browser compatability was a lot more complicated than I thought it would be.

Webmistress,
A horizontal scrollbar at 800*600?
Yikes! I have no idea why that is happening. I have my table set at 760 pixels. I'm not sure what to change to loose the scrollbar.

Thanks again everyone for the feedback!
Even though you're not in love with the colors, you have to admit it's better than the old textured background I used to use.... LOL

Have fun
Karen

The Webmistress — Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:02:19 +0000

I agree with Busy, that colour grey just makes the site seem dull, although I don't think a light blue would work with the green. I also get a horizontal scrollbar at 800*600.

a virtual mountain of art

mmi — Tue, 08 Jan 2002 07:47:12 +0000

hey Karen - looks good! - I'm a copyeditor, not a designer, so here are some suggestions in that regard:

"Each month at the Color Pencil Challenge, we offer a lesson from a professional artist designed to..."

the mouseover color for "New this Month" is hard to read

"...you their award-winning techniques."

"Get inspired by [delete]seeing[/delete] the creations of fellow artists ..."

"Explanations, ideas and help.."

"...the art of drawing with color pencils."?

you might wanna drop the periods in most 'a these blurbs

"...place an ad..."

"check out our awards [delete]here[/delete]." - if only cuz ya don't use it elsewhere

I like the effect you've achieved with bg images (white.jpg, DS_ur.gif, etc.)

bertiek — Tue, 08 Jan 2002 06:08:54 +0000

I agree with all of the above especially about the colour scheme being a bit dull.

My suggestion would be to change the gray to a light blue or something.