Bob — Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:43:12 +0000

Suzanne,

I tried playing with different values for em, but still could not get it to work correctly with both browsers. However, I added a in front of the first

and it now works OK with both NS and IE.

ul {margin-top: -.75em;}

Some text

first item
second item

It's a little tighter on IE than I would like, and a little wider on NS than I would like, but definitely better overall than before. Not sure exactly why this worked, but it does. Thanks again for all your help.

Bob

I could pick a fight...

Suzanne — Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:37:50 +0000

That typography isn't "prettification", but rather an essential communication tool, but I'd probably lose!

Suzanne

Vincent Puglia — Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:35:34 +0000

Hi Suzanne,

Point well taken. As a general rule, I agree. However, when it comes to 'prettyfication', I'm somewhat lax. Guess that's why I consider myself a coder and not a designer and wear Lees and Levis and not Ralph and Tommy

Vinny

wink wink to Vinny...

Suzanne — Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:13:25 +0000

Well, in Netscape 6, Opera 6, IE 5 & 6, you should have the same results with a little less of a variance in the margin, like -.5em instead.

What you can do is set it to -1em in the linked stylesheet for Netscape 4.x, then over-ride that with -.5em in the imported stylesheet, which will make it work for the newer browsers.

Short of that, you can go for somewhere in the middle as far as sizing goes, like -.75em, ha!

It will also depend on what else you are doing, of course, in your CSS.

I'd recommend poking around alistapart.com and checking out their stylesheets if you are looking for real life examples and webstandards.org has a page on how to have the best of both worlds (supporting standards AND lower browsers at the same time).

Suzanne

P.S. To Vinny -- some people don't give a hoot as to valid code, and some do, so I was just providing the other side of the coin.

Bob — Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:57:58 +0000

Jack, Vinny, Suzanne,

Thanks for all the replies.

Jack, unfortunately, your idea did not work.

Vinny, I've used your idea before. It works fine, except without the

wraps to the next line, it starts it under the "." rather than indented under the text on the line above.

Suzanne, your idea using CSS worked fine in Netscape - did exactly what I was looking for. The only problem is with IE it causes "first item" to be overlaid on top of "some data". Is there a way to get it to work with both Netscape and IE? Thanks again.

Bob

Vincent Puglia — Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:50:45 +0000

ouch, Suzanne

I defer to your better control over text flow

Vinny

Valid code

Suzanne — Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:41:19 +0000

For valid code, please use the

around the

tags, and use CSS to change the spacing between the elements.

ul {margin-top: -1em;}

The amount you change the spacing to will depend on the size of your fonts, of course.

Suzanne

Vincent Puglia — Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:40:53 +0000

Hi,

If you want no empty lines between any of the text, kill the

I could pick a fight...

*wink wink* to Vinny...

Valid code

wink wink to Vinny...