exbabylon — Thu, 07 Dec 2000 15:15:03 +0000

hey,

Frames are a great tool in some cases, but non-frames are usually a much better way to go. I still haven't perfected the art of layout and design, but I'm getting there on a real fast pace. Search Engines like non-frames better for indexing too.

My firts two sites were in frames, and the first turned out better that way I think, but the second I'm sure I could've done much better.

http://www.fishon.nethop.com -- Good One

http://www.mowing.nethop.com -- I couldv'e done better!

God Bless and keep trying

Webkid16 — Thu, 07 Dec 2000 02:42:27 +0000

exbabylon- Thanks for the input. I did not know that about frames. I have another site at http://airsoftheaven.iwarp.com that uses frames too. This site isn't done, I don't know when I'm going to finish it because I have to first finish the airbrush one. I took the frame out of the airbrush site and put everything in tables. I'm not that good with tables but I read on how to use them in webmonkey. Check it out and tell me what's wrong. Oh yeah, before you go into the site, this isn't the real site that I'm going to have up. The only thing that I might use is the interface and the picture in the middle, I'm not sure about the banner. http://marinedog.hypermart.net/home.html I know it still doesn't look "professional" but it was the best I could do today since I'm learning this while I go. I thought I knew how to make website but the only websites that I could make were sites like AirsoftHeaven which aren't professional at all and are way to simple, I think. Anyway, that's what I'm trying to get out of all this (from webmaster-forums.com and the site I'm building) I want to learn how to make really good professional site that I can make for a lot of money from and wow my friends with my site. I love making sites but I don't know much(I thought I did but not anymore) so I really appreciate all you guys that are helping me with all my questions. Thanks

Mark Hensler — Wed, 06 Dec 2000 02:59:22 +0000

Hello Webkid16, and welcome to TWF!

I'm not a graphics guy. I try to stay FAR away from any graphic producing activities. I'm a programmer. So I'll tell you about the languages you can use.

~~Visual Basic~~
You won't be using this. You can use the script form, but not Visual Basic. (I do think that it good language, just can't use it for the web.)

~~C++~~
Again, you won't be using this for the web. However, javascript, perl, and php are said to be 'based' off of the C language.

~~SERVER-SIDE~~

~~Perl/CGI~~
This is a very good language to learn. CGI's can run on *nix (unix and linux) servers as well as NT servers. I grouped CGI with perl because most (not all) CGIs are written in perl.
Perl/CGI is used for everything from page counters to form processors. I've heard of people using it to access mySQL databases, but I've not tried this. (I use PHP or ASP to to DB work)

~~PHP~~
This language is suppose to be cross-platform. I've personally used it on *nix servers and NT servers. The problem is that it's hard to find an NT server with PHP support. Generally only *nix servers are configured to support it.
I've used this to make counters, form proccessors, and to interact with mySQL databases. In my opinion this language is very similar to perl, yet easier to learn. I've also used its coookies and session varialbes.

~~ASP~~
This is microsofts toy. It's a good language is generally only supported on NT servers. However, *nix servers can get a program to run them too. ASP (active Server Pages) is generally written in VB Script, but can also be written in other languages (my mind draws a blank... BRAIN FART!).
I've used this for form processors and to access databases. I've also used its coookies and session varialbes.
Another good thing about ASP... you can compile it into DLLs and it will run FASTER!

~~CLIENT-SIDE~~

~~JavaScript~~
Very good language to learn!! Almost all client-side dynamic activity is written in JavaScript (VBS being the other popular one).

~~Other~~

~~CSS~~
Cascading Style Sheets. This can really make you sites look good. Another plus for CSS is that you can link to an external CSS file, and change the look of your intire site by editing that one file. One down side is that different browsers support it differently.

Hope that helps, and as stated many time before: Feel free to ask more questions.

exbabylon — Wed, 06 Dec 2000 00:24:23 +0000

yuk.... don't use frames like that!!!! Frames are great in some things, but learn how to do a basic layout with tables first! After you figure out how to do that you will be able to use frames effectivly.

Webkid16 — Tue, 05 Dec 2000 22:34:25 +0000

I've been working on a site for one of my dad's friend that does airbrush work but I've only done this one interface for his site. http://marinedog.hypermart.net/elpintor.html This is not his actual site though because I haven't made it yet. I just put this up so that I can test it and see if it came out ok. I think I'm going to have to make it smaller though because I made it in a high res. monitor and when I went over my friends house and saw it under his 800x600 monitor it was too big to fit in the frame. I also need help on how to make everything look the same(as close as posible) in all resolutions. Like, how do I make everything "fit" and be "centered" no matter where I see it from. Anyway, if you can help me on that too that would be nice. Thanks

Jaiem — Tue, 05 Dec 2000 14:28:06 +0000

Webkid - How many business or organizational sites have you actually built? Can you give us some URl's as references to your work?

Megan — Mon, 04 Dec 2000 20:30:11 +0000

Yeah, definitnely don't try to do it all at once. I'd probably start with the graphics (by looking at your site, it seems like you need to learn how to save graphics properly. Learn about the differences between gif and jpeg), then learn Javascript and other scripting languages. There's a lot of other little things that you'll need to learn, like cross-browser/resolution problems, how to make scalable tabled layouts, why not to use geocities Reading at forums like this will help a lot.

One site that I found to be very helpful for learning things is http://www.webmonkey.com

I hope this helps, and feel free to ask questions!

One more thing - I don't think that it will be necessary for you to get photoshop right away (it's expensive!) PSP can do a lot of the same things, especially from a beginner's perspective. There are people here who use PSP regularly so surely some of them will be able to help.

Ravi Pachai — Mon, 04 Dec 2000 19:56:58 +0000

Hi Webkid16,

This topic is not related to advertising or sponsorship so I will be moving it to the HTML / CSS forum.

I think the first step to making "better looking" or "professional" websites is experience. Go out and practice, view (but don't copy) people's code. When you see something you like, try to replicate it. The more you see, the more you apply, the more you learn. This will help when you're building websites for other people.

Personally one thing I cannot stand is designers who say they have built so much and done this and that and when you look at their designs basically it's the same structure over and over again just altered a little. The more you apply, the better you are at being able to build with creativity..being able to focus the design on the subject at hand.

My site would be an excellent example of how websites can make use of scripting languages. My site uses VBScript (soon to be PHP)..and it's a database of 35,000 lyrics. I have properly 4 scripts (or 4 different files) which can display over 35,000 different results. The files are templates and the content which is shown in them is dynamic. This is very very useful for the web. It means that when I want to edit my whole site all I have to change is 4 files (instead of 35,000 files)..or I could easily incorporate something else, like a link to an artist biography..instead of having to edit 35,000. The database provides convenience, and it is time saving.

What I suggest? Practice, don't just go and copy, sit there and write code, save it and refresh the html file in your browser to see what happens. With graphics? I like Photoshop, I find it much easier and much more powerful the Paint Shop Pro. Take tutorials..if you ever get photoshop I suggest these sites..(www.phong.com) and (www.designsbymark.com), I have used both of the sites. With graphics do the same, use filters, see what they do, press buttons, see what those do. In time things will start to fall together and you will start to get the hang of things. You'll start to try different things out. Suggestion: Don't try and learn it all at once (HTML, Graphics, Scripting) take it one step at a time, and don't discourage yourself (oh this is way to much work), just do it! People are always around to help, so ask them if you need to (like webmaster-forums.com). It takes time, but it doesn't take forever .

HTH,
Ravi

Webkid16 — Mon, 04 Dec 2000 15:44:13 +0000

How do I make my site look professional? I went to Image Harbor(I think it's your site) and it looked really professional! I really liked it, did you make it? Those are the kind of sites that I want to make. What do I need to know to make a site like Image Harbor? I use coffee cup html editor and paint shop pro 7. Do I need to get Dreamweaver and Photoshop or something? Because if I do I can get them.
Also, do I need to know visual basic/c++? If I do, for what? Is that how people make scripts? I want to learn how to make my own scripts too. One last thing, can you give me examples of what kind of scripts people actually "make" and for what it's used for?

I'm really sorry for all the questions, it's just that I've been looking for a place like this where I can ask specific questions about learning how to build websites. This is a really great site, I'm so happy I ran into it.

Anyway, if you can answer all the questions I gave you(sorry if it's too much) that'll be great! Thank you so much.

Ted Sindzinski — Mon, 04 Dec 2000 07:47:43 +0000

Webkid,
When I saw you have a ways to go, I mean just that. Your images work but they don't look very professional and you certainly wouldn't fit them into cnn or yahoo's website. Good images look professional, clean and sharp.

As for a good site to learn about scripting and such, books are really the way to go. I spent many years going through other people's scripts, chatting on cgi forums and so forth to learn most of perl and then used a book and made my own scripts to finalize the language.