Jaiem — Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:00:00 +0000

I agree. When we first signed up we took an intermediate package because we didn't know how much disk space we needed. Later, we downgraded to lower costs. Even if our site doubled from it's present size we still wouldn't use up all our space.

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ArtsNFlies.com
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Sun, 13 Feb 2000 01:52:00 +0000

quote:the "average" website never uses more than about 10-20Mb anyway, so why is everybody insisting on selling 250, 350, 500?

Marketing my friend. You are absolutely correct. About 90% of the sites we host use no more space than our first plan offers (25 MB). So why do other companies advertise 500 MB for the same price? Because they know that most won't use 1/20 of that. And when someone that is new to this stuff comes along comparing a host offering 25 MB and a host offering 500 MB , guess who they are going to choose. It is called "overselling" and they are gambling that no more than one or two sites will actually use that much space.

The 10% of sites that we do host that use a lot of space are exactly what you described. Large catalogs, portals, etc.

Just thought I would add my $.02 on the subject

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Dynamic Internet Solutions : http://www.dids.com
Windows NT and UNIX Hosting

Bobby — Sat, 12 Feb 2000 21:08:00 +0000

Thanks for the comments. I agree that we all seem to have the same dilemma....wanting to offer a service we can't afford to supply! I've been continually researching since i post last month and haven't been back here for a few weeks. My co-webjunkies/webmasters are bugging me about "what's happening with the webhosting thing?"...so I'm not going to get to shuffle my feet much longer. Here are the latest "opinions" I've gathered within the emptiness of my cranium....

I'm convinced Communitech is an excellent choice for those looking to allow SubDomain and wildcard options. They offer 25 subs within an account...very useful for me and the idea I have for supplying websites to the 20+ motocross tracks in Texas for free...in exchange for ad space... But, they are a little higher than some others on the Reseller side...at $19.95 base and no Tech Support - that's a downside.

The OLM/WebAxxs packages really kick ass...and at WebAxxs with the Reseller plan at $10. setup and $8 a month on 350Mb it's probably going to be my main supply. Plus they have that god-awful-looking "Free Website Builder" program (which I need to offer "Community" building options to my non-profit orgs and clubs) and what looks like a good PlusMail Manager with a 500 user setup. Thanks to John and his forum on Topica...and to JT at WebAxxs...they are offering a good service with the message board for users.

I'm still holding an account at CIHost and if you don't "need" Tech Support, you never miss them. After all, they are part of the old OLM family...so the packages are almost identical. CIhost is higher priced though...and even though they look like a better Reseller Customer Support setup, only time will tell if they actually do. Frankly, since the crash in Dec, they doubled my space...I get 1000Mb and 100 POP and all the other CIHost goodies for $17.95...so, I'll probably keep the space and redirect into it from another site that needs a large forum storage space or partner it out or something.

Almost all the other sources I've checked out thouroughly have very common detractors.

They are asking to much for space at the Reseller level (over $17.95 for 350Mb+) and I can't markup that kind of charge in todays' marketplace.

Or they don't offer any Tech Support or Billing Support or Anonymous Support...and for a smalltime reseller, the Back Office costs are the real killer in the business.

Or they don't offer but ONE PLAN for resellers to use instead of the many options they offer on the retail side....ie: the "average" website never uses more than about 10-20Mb anyway, so why is everybody insisting on selling 250, 350, 500? My largest site has over 70 pages, 120 gifs and jpegs, a dozen applets, and other goodies and doesn't cross the 10Mb mark. Geez, you gotta' be C/Net or WebMonkey or a major WebCrossing forum or a huge Catalog site to use 500Mb!!

That's my progress report. Any comments or links would be cool. Thanks for taking the time to read and I hope this sparks an idea or two for ya' to use on your adventure. Have a great day.....Bobby

chicken — Thu, 27 Jan 2000 05:01:00 +0000

Another problem you have is what we all have. How to set something up NOW that will allow us to do what we need to do in the FUTURE. I mean, if it were as easy as pie, we'd ALL be on dedicated servers. Right?

What you are talking about could require many people to setup/maintain/admin. I always find it a bit funny when someone says they want to start a site like WHATEVER.com when they just don't realize that WHATEVER.com is actually a company with 30 employees (I just picked 30 for the heck of it, could be more could be less).

Some of these people are extremely knowledgeable (beyond my means) of how to setup/admin/modify complex web applications and web sites. I get jittery when I try to set up some of the free cgi scripts AS IS.

It is hard to create GeoCities, when you just don't have the means to do so. (I think I remember someone asking "who Geocities was hosted by in one of these forums).

Try your idea on a small scale even if it ends up costing you some cash. If it works and you and other people like it, and you see a future in it ($$$), go dedicated (many of the costs won't be there and you will have total control over the setup, etc.)

Just my babble...

Stefen Enns — Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:51:00 +0000

I agree with Rob that you should look into a dedicated server, especially if you‘ll be hosting other people‘s sites.

As John already said, unlimited is never really unlimited and you will probably run into problems on a virtual hosting account. (The host I‘m currently with defines unlimited bandwidth as 6GB per month. That‘s far from unlimited.)

Bobby — Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:42:00 +0000

Yes, I'm beginning to agree with you all. The Dedicated Server is probably the only option for something this size. I'm surprized that CIHost has always allowed such a large transfer rate on their accounts...but, that's one of the things that attracts so many people to use them. Geez, guys, I'm gonna have to go "back to school" just to run the place efficiently and I don't even have it built yet! Maybe, I should start off with a standard plan at a host and let it grow into the server...at least I won't be getting too deep into a venture that has flaws I haven't discovered yet or never gathers the following to support it. My main concern is gathering all these webmasters under TexasOffroad.net and then having problems with my webhost supplier and losing credibility with my peers.

I appreciate your help guys...This is going to require alot of homework....decisions, decisions.....Bobby.

John Pollock — Thu, 20 Jan 2000 03:28:00 +0000

Hi Bobby:

While looking through the things you want to do, I would say your single biggest problem getting a host to do this on a "virtual hosting account" is bandwidth.

If you plan on these sites (yours + all of those hosted by you) getting a lot of traffic, you might end up going over your bandwidth limits (unlimited bandwidth is not really unlimited) and being charged whatever amount the host decides in extra fees.

I think the best advice would be a dedicated server. You can rent these from a hosting company or have your own. My guess is this would be cheaper in the long run with such a large undertaking-- and it will allow you to sell the space the way you like, and place the directories how you want them.

Of course, I could be wrong.. maybe one of the hosting companies that post here can give you an idea of the bandwidth these sites might require and give you a better idea on how to proceed.

Best of luck with the project, it looks like a great idea!

Rob Pengelly — Thu, 20 Jan 2000 03:08:00 +0000

Your project seems like a very big task, which will require a lot of web space, bandwidth etc, I would think. Although I only skimmed through your post (sorry ..) I suggest you look into getting a dedicated server. Than you will have a lot less worries about web space, subdomains, emails etc.
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A cow produces about 65 pounds of crap a day.

[This message has been edited by robp (edited 19 January 2000).]

Justin S — Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:43:00 +0000

Sorry- I don't have much time to post, so I'd say that whoever you decide to go with (WebAxxs for instance) can answer almost all the questions you have...

Again, sorry for the short reply...

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Justin @ fireburn.com

Bobby — Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:05:00 +0000

Thanks for the reply, Justin.

I realize I'm not being extremely clear about the thoughts I have on this subject. Try these points as a guide to how the questioning evolves in my mind....

1) At Communitech they allow you 25 subdomains and ftp accounts (which they claim are "true" subdomains)....so the "breaking up" of the webspace you purchase would fall right into the same idea I have for making up a "community" of non-profit webmasters under a larger commercial-based host. I was wondering if any of you have had experiences similar to the package they offer? Any thoughts on them as a source? (When CIHost crashed, they sent me an email offering their "support"....wow...what to think, huh?)

2) The "accumulation" question follows this reasoning....If I buy a chunk of space, say 400Mb at a host that allows me to offer free websites and community set-ups (like Communitech or WebAxxs) and I need more space, will most hosts allow me to pick up another 400Mb chunk and join the two together? Or for instance, using WebAxxs as an example, I pick up the Community package AND a Reseller package...would it be customary for a host to allow me to combine whatever spaces I have into one large chunk and divide it up as I feel a need to? Or am I way off in left field here?

3) I agree that CIHost has been a reliable service in the past, even though their Tech crew seems kinda questionable...and has some awesome packages, especially for resellers. But would any of you have other suggestions on whether they are what I should be looking for in a host? I have never felt really comfortable with them....and I've learned in life to trust my feelings about things, ya'know?

4) I've put alot of time into searching out suppliers and companies that offer "Community" building software or affiliate programs....and I've built over half a dozen on sites like Excite or Homesite or Deja or MyWeb or etc.... Frankly, most are a pain to work within as an admin and uploading stuff as a member is even slower and more error prone...and waiting for pages to load is brutal slow, especially as the communities they host grows and server resources get swallowed up. Do any of you have any suggestions as to who, what, where would be willing to accept a smalltime project like this? Is there some special trait I should be looking for in this area that only experienced webmasters would know about?

I'd love the chance to offer this kind of service to my fellow offroad enthusiasts, so any pointers or advice is appreciated. The idea that I could actually make enough money from the commercial side of reselling hosting to allow me to devote my time to a nobel cause is a great motivator.

Later....lunchtime is over!.....Bobby { )