AB Carroll — Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:08:00 +0000

Hi Andy,

I am working on the same thing. Is it possible to send me that info as well?

Thanks,
AB

Suzanne — Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:03:00 +0000

Nathan read my post again. That's what I said. Frames work for your application.

About bandwidth -- when there is a heavy pull on resources in one location, or a bunch of heavy pulls on a bunch of locations, the whole web slows down. www.internettrafficreport.com

My apologies for any insult you took from the newbie comment. It wasn't entirely directed at you, more a generic statement. It could be well directed my me, as well. Just because we understand a little doesn't mean we should think that we understand all there is to know. Me, included. Again, my apologies for that sounding barbed.

However if you fully comprehend tables and frames, why are you confused about why others may have issues with them?

Suzanne

------------------
Zero Cattle
Suzanne
Tables DeMystified

[This message has been edited by Suzanne (edited 20 February 2000).]

nathan — Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:46:00 +0000

Suzanne, doing it with tables as you said can not be done with my site because I need the vertical height.

About the bandwidth, erm... What are you talking about?

"If it looks cool while still being low on bandwidth"

My whole site is less than 250k. That's the front page, main page, and two sub sites inside.

And using tables would dramatically increase the bandwidth of my site.

While I said I was a novice, I do understand well the use of frames and tables. I would consider anyone who does not know cgi, java, ASP to be a novice.

Suzanne — Sun, 20 Feb 2000 04:51:00 +0000

Nathan, heavy bandwidth hogs affect the whole of the web. If you don't believe me, look at the recent hacking problems and the resultant slowing down and crashing of various areas of the web.

Regardless, you could do the bordered effect without frames very easily, though not if your content is going to scroll at lower resolutions.

Tables (9 cells) with the outer eight cells coloured, with backgrounds, whatever and set to a specific width and your content in the middle will do the same thing.

It depends on your application. For your page, it works fine to keep the decorative elements in the viewer's eye at all times.

You say you are a newbie, which is fine. Everyone starts as a newbie. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that the issues you don't understand fully don't exist at all.

witchhaven you can certainly have the frames easily bookmarked by having each page a frameset (differently named) and loading the same header/footer/sides into the new framesets. Of course, you can also do the same thing with cgi and ssi.

***

Wasn't this thread about the evils of the <blink> tag? *shudder*

Cheers!

Suzanne

------------------
Zero Cattle
Suzanne
Tables DeMystified

nathan — Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:06:00 +0000

Well my main site has an entry page and 4 frames.

I am only a novice, but I don't see how they hinder my site at all.

I guess you would have to see my site to really know what I am on about (site is not open yet but most all links work).

The entry page is all about expressing a certain style. I want to express the 'culture' of the site with some visual flair as soon as the person gets to the site. It's all about making a good first impression.

The 4 frames are for the border I have around the page. I don't see how I could have done it any other way with HTML and Javascript. I also don't see what is worng with it.

I am making a site for people like myself. I don't care if a site is not PC with other web designers. If it looks cool while still being low on bandwidth, and the content is of quality, I will love the site and go back again and again. Isn't that what it is all about?

Malte — Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:34:00 +0000

Well, this doe saway with most advantages of frames, especially the loading time. It actually increases loading time. Its better to have a page which is invidualiy loaded create its own frameset if there is none.

if(!parent.frames) document.write.....

Malte

witchaven — Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:17:00 +0000

An idea I had while reading these posts that I may consider using... A way to use frames so somone CAN bookmark an individual page.
I'm still relatively new to using frames, so this might not work.
My idea is to make a seperate frameset page for each page... and then have each link on the Nav bar break out of the frames using target="_top" to a new frameset page. Sure it makes more work for the webdesigner then a standard frame, but this way you can change the content of the navigation bar easily.
When somone bookmarks a particular page this way, they will bookmark a partiular frameset that goes directly to the page WITH the navigation bar.
Also, this way you can control what pages someone can bookmark and those you don't want them to (like a page that is only up for a limited time, such as a month long sale page...)
Any opinions on something like this from somone who know more about frames than I do?

vy22 — Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:15:00 +0000

Cysansity: You hit the nail right on the head there my friend! You tell em!

~Vy~

cynsanity — Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:10:00 +0000

okay...
I have to say that I'm not very good at programming because I own my PC for 3 weeks - but I'm trying to learn it somehow.
Well, to say something about the frames/no frames - problem: If I surf to a page I want to get the information I wanted to have. And I want to see this information in a way that I find the info as fast as it's possible. There's nothing uglier and more senseless than a homepage with 3, 4, 5 frames or more. But I say nothing against - for example - a navigation-frame on the left (or right) and a main frame. Sometimes such a design can be very useful. But if there are no frames - no problem. I think it doesn't really depend on frames if a site is good ar not. It depends on how easy it is to navigate, design, information, loading times etc.
So that was the "young surfer's point of view

Last but not least I have a question: Can someone please tell me which books I should buy in the next time (concerning programming, of course). I already know the most important things about html and JavaScript but I'd like to know more

------------------

vy22 — Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:58:00 +0000

arhhh ! I didn't spoil it for everyone did I?
I just said .... Never mind!! Ahhh ok I agree Malte!