I have a client. I recently told him that it would cost $100 to update 1 page monthly. He wanted the "Newsletter" section to be updated every month. This is an .html site. But not like bare bones basic. It relies heavily on graphics and background music.
Content includes text of schedules/daily activities etc. Add in some different clip-art/pictures every month.
Anyway, he thinks that $100 to update the monthly newsletter is unreasonable. He's willing to pay $35 a month for my work.
What are your opinions on this? Who's being unreasonable. Time is money. The little tweaking I do not only in Photoshop and Corel just for a newsletter takes up my time. Add formatting the .html code and uploading the page.
I personally think $35 is an insult for the time us designers/programmers spend on these sites. I mean he couldn't even meet me halfway at $50. He said that If I don't think $35 is reasonable he'll go somewhere else. Should I take the $35 just to have good rapport with him? Or don't sell myself short and don't let him take advantage of me as a designer and tell him "go ahead get someone else"??
Busy posted this at 09:53—9th November 2003.
He has: 6,148 posts
Joined: May 2001
At first I was going to say tell them to find someone else to do it for $35 but then got me thinking, how many hours would you spend on it a month? (remember we aren't the client
), do you get any advertising out of it? (your domain name on the newsletter or something), are you new and just starting out?
You said they couldn't even met you half way so it sounds like you can afford to do it cheaper.
Give us some more info
btw, welcome to the TWF, drop by the introductions thread and introduce yourself.
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taff posted this at 12:01—9th November 2003.
They have: 956 posts
Joined: Jun 2001
Just the one page? Personally, I think that you are reaching a little high on the rates. Have you really though this through at an hourly rate? In my opinion, it is a little hard to justify one broad flat rate in this business. Design, programming, and maintenance are all very different things. Basic maintenance falls at the low end of the scale.
However, I certainly don't know all the details of this project. If you feel the $100 is a valid rate then no, you certainly shouldn't go for a mere fraction of it. The viability of this industry is being destroyed by lowballers as it is.
Try to bundle this in to an overall annual "package" that is prepaid. I charge a lot less for maintenance prepaid annually than in monthly "pay as you go" cases. The cash flow benefits and consistency are worth it for me. ymmv.
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strider213 posted this at 17:04—9th November 2003.
They have: 4 posts
Joined: Nov 2003
The only reason I would put down the $100 rate is because in the past when he wanted a NEW page added to the site he said, "I'll pay you $100 a page". One time he asked me to add 2 NEW pages to the site and said, "$100 per page plus $70 for the work (extra tweaking it takes to make the new buttons fit I basically had to redesign the whole menu in order to compensate the new pages).
That's the only reason why I said $100. So I'm not just throwing a figure in the air at him. This whole "$100 per page" worked until a couple of months ago when I made 3 new pages again and updated 3 of the existing one (changed the content/pictures) he wouldn't go for the $100 per page anymore. He said, all you're doing is "typing" I can do that in 10 minutes I'll just pay you $350 for the whole thing. And me being a nice guy who wanted to good rapport...agreed.
I know it's my fault for not having a business plan in the beginning. You know like write down all my rates have us both sign it and make sure he knows before hand what the maintenance will cost. So now it seems like we're going making up the rules as we go along. I go 100 he says no. And honestly, RIGHT in the beginning before I even touched the website I said to him: "I'll give you free updates for 1 year, what do you wanna do after that?" And he said, "I'll just give you like 100 bucks or whatever". Yeah too bad I don't have him recorded on a microphone saying that. Apparently "Whatever" means $35.
I think highly of my skills. I have taken a multimedia computer applications course and graduated with honors. I have had 1 other client before this so I consider myself "new" to the business.
I personally think, he thinks I'm just some kid who has a hobby at .html and decided to give a break to. You know he's late with his payments. One time I actually waited 3 months in receiving my cheque for $350 but I bit my tongue. I know I haven't stood up for myself in the past that's why I might think of settling for the $35 just to be a "nice guy". But I don't wanna be a doormat. This guy can certainly afford it. I spend about an hour doing the newsletter. I have to use three programs in order to update it monthly: Corel/Photoshop/Dreamweaver. Because the clipart he wants has white backgrounds and I have to edit that out in photoshop and make it look clean.
From what I told you...is $100 too steep? I charged a grand ($1000) on the whole site together which included around 10-12 pages and he would add and delete pages here and there and would pay me for the work. It's not a bare bones "corporate" site with text. He even wanted different background music on EACH page. So I would have to upload like 8 different mp3s on the server. I even added Flash to his "Splash" page without extra charge.
He said, "This is not a job for you, it is a deal we worked out as favors to each other. If this is not reasonable to you, just let me know and i will find someone else. Ask anyone, i am one of the most reasonable people around as well as fair." I think he won't settle for anything either than $35. Cause he said, "$35 THAT'S IT". So even asking him $50 (which I haven't yet) he won't settle for it.
I don't get advertising out of the newsletter, not even my name or anything is anywhere on the site. No one can't even contact the webmaster. If I went for an annual "package" he said it would work to be $420 a year if I accepted the $35. I don't know about an hourly rate, but as I mentioned I do spend about an hour for the newsletter. And as we as designers know it is NOT just "typing" up the content.
taff posted this at 18:52—9th November 2003.
They have: 956 posts
Joined: Jun 2001
Without getting too deep into a real pricing discussion here (which is a no-no) let's just look at it like this...
Take your hourly rate and multiply it against the time this job takes you. There ya go. Now the hard part - calculate your degree of flexibility
You need to factor in the value of this customer to you *AND* the value of the site maintaining its integrity - i.e. how important is this to your portfolio. I know that I've walked away from certain maintenance arrangements in the past only to find the site subsequently deteriorate so badly that I've had to drop it from my portfolio. Conversely, I've also done free maintenance to prevent this from happening.
It sounds to me that the two of you have enough history that no one here can truly know enough of the story to advise you definitively. However, it appears to me as if you have only 3 options:
1 take what he offers
2 walk away
3 negotiate something mutually agreeable
For the amount of money/work you are talking about, there seems to be nary a difference between 1 and 2 except that 2 would likely preclude you from future thousand dollar jobs from the guy. Option 3 seems to be the best result if you can pull it off.
I still say shoot for something longterm. Make a monthly offer and then offer him the year at that rate times 10 (ie - 2 months free). Likely you won't wind up with much more than he's offering now but there is value in lump sum prepayments.
note: It occurs to me that this post is better suited for the Internet Business Discussion forum. I'll move it there after I submit
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strider213 posted this at 00:21—10th November 2003.
They have: 4 posts
Joined: Nov 2003
Well I personally don't mind walking away from it, but it just adds more stress to the situation. If I walk away, I still have to update the newsletter no matter what for November/December.
He admitted that the site was "****" then all of a sudden he wants to keep it the same.
If I settle for the $35 monthly and get a lump sum payment for the whole year I wouldn't mind that. I just would feel like a pathetic schmuck if he gave me a CHEQUE for $35 every month. I lump sum is better.
And Taff, he already made a monthly offer rate times 12 (not 2 months free) so it would be better right?
sarge299 posted this at 21:40—14th November 2003.
He has: 28 posts
Joined: Nov 2003
I think people that ask us to do work for them actually think its just typing and uploading, they dont take into account the things like the white background on the pictures, the button creation, the tweaking so that the navigation works each time a page is deleted or added.
If this person thinks they can get it cheaper than what you are asking then let them try. Usually they may find someone cheaper initially, but then all the hidden costs start to come out and they can wind up paying more.
I tend to find myself waiting a few months for payment as well. So, dont feel bad.
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