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They have: 5 posts

Joined: Mar 2002

I could use some feedback from some real webmasters out there, not so much about the resource itself but more about the IDEA for the resource. Let me explain a little bit...

As we all know, the Internet is changing from free-to-fee. I'll agree that not everyone is happy with this change, but it appears that there's nothing to stop it.

In response to this change, I started offering a web resource that works something like Yahoo! Groups (or MSN Communities if you don't know what a Yahoo! Group is). The biggest difference was in the file sharing section. People could upload files to the group for free and attach a small price tag (anywere from $0.10 to $20.00). People downloading the files would have to pay to get it, but half of the money would go back to the person who uploaded it (so it can be viewed as a way to help people sell their own content).

Doing it like this keeps advertising off the Group making it a better experience (because we all hate ads, right?) and the system pays for its own upkeep because the users of the system pay for it a little bit at a time as they use it. (No signing up for subscriptions, the moderator doesn't have to pay for it, etc.)

Everything works (technically speaking) and I thought webmasters would find such a free web resource useful, but instead, people have been slow to embrace the idea of this resource. What I'm wondering is, "Where's the flaw in the logic?" Is it that people just don't want to sell content? Or do they believe that if they sell it, no one will buy it?

Here it is if you want to have a look: http://www.vtechmedia.com

Megan's picture
Administrator

She has: 10,304 posts

Joined: Jun 1999

I think that the basic idea is a good one but there are a few problems here that I can point out.

First of all, it seems to me that you need to have a better understanding of who your target audience is. The writing on the front page is very business-ish and full of jargon. The point is not entirely clear to me - at least not as clear as it could be.

I think this is something that could be of interest to a wide variety of people - photographers, designers, artists, writers, collectors etc. etc. Generally, I wouldn't say that this type of audience would be overly familiar with the type of rhetoric you're using on the front page here. The ideas don't come across as clearly as they should and may confuse a lot of people. What do people do when they're confused? That's right, they go someplace else.

The second problem is the quality and quantity of content that is here. There aren't a lot of groups available and I had a fairly hard time scanning through and finding one that interests me. These should be divided into categories of some sort which would help one to decipher the sometimes cryptic titles.

A third problem was insufficient information about the product for sale. I went into the photography area and was unable to find a larger scale copies of the images I was previewing. I can't get a good idea of what an image looks like from a thumbnail! Another example was the Education section - the blurb on the listing page didn't give me a good idea of what would actually be inside the group. Then, when I got into it, I was confused as to where the products were and what type of education was being provided. There seems to be a very odd mix of stuff in here. I understand that this problem isn't necessarily something that's your fault but it may be a good idea to encourage members to make things more clear...

How much advertising have you been doing? Where? You should get the word out to people who would be interested in using this service; the types of groups I mentioned above. This may be a slow process - as I alluded to above, people aren't going to want to sign up unless they see a fair amount of quality content that they would like to purchase. That may take time. A $20 ceiling may prevent you from attracting quality content.

I hope this is helpful to you. I'm not too familiar with Yahoo Groups so I wasn't exactly sure what type of feedback you were looking for.

mairving's picture
Moderator

They have: 2,256 posts

Joined: Feb 2001

The big flaw in your logic is that you are not Yahoo. You have to have a much wider base before you can launch a product like this. The other problem is that people don't want to pay for things. On the link that you have to MSNBC's site, 92% of 900 people said that they wouldn't pay for file sharing. That is certainly not a scientific poll but I think that most people are still convinced that things should be free.

Mark Irving
I have a mind like a steel trap; it is rusty and illegal in 47 states

The Webmistress's picture

She has: 5,587 posts

Joined: Feb 2001

I agree with Mairving and I'm sorry to say that people will still go for the free option forst, even if it means putting up with ads. Yes they are annoying but if the content you've gone to the site for is quality but free I'm sure everyone will put up with a few pop-ups! I think if you go into any venture on the internet with the attitude that you are going to make a huge pile of cash you shoudn't bother, what the internet needs is good quality content.

Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....

She has: 84 posts

Joined: May 2002

Quote: ...a small price tag (anywere from $0.10 to $20.00).

Wouldn't this be smaller than the transaction fee for most credit cards? Who would administer all this bookkeepping? PayPal's credibility seems to be slipping, and I'd be leery of sending my credit card number off to a company that would return a bill reading like my phone bill.

Maybe one day it will shake out to some arrangement like this, but not soon. American consumers are still reeling from the crisis in accounting and corporate reporting, the big telecoms are scamming people, even Martha Stewart is looking at an obstruction charge--not a good time to start anything that requires the consumer's trust. Maybe 2005...

Andi

...the Rockies may tumble, Gibralter may crumble... G & I Gershwin, 1937

Megan's picture
Administrator

She has: 10,304 posts

Joined: Jun 1999

I think that people are going to have to accept the fact that certain types of content isn't going to be free forever. I know quite a few content providers (namely photographers) who are becoming increasingly less willing to provide their content online for free. I'm sure that many of them would be interested in a tool that would allow them to make a little money from their work. Not to mention people who provide higher bandwidth content such as videos and multimeida, plus people like ourselves who also have costs associated with what we do.

Micropayments have been talked about for quite awhile now. It's just a matter of making it happen in reality. The question is: are you the one to start? Is this the right time?

I also think that other issues have to be taken into consideration. Namely the fact that you do not have an established brand name. Also the transaction and trust issues that andilinks mentioned. Issues of intellectual property rights and control of distribution come to mind. It's a sticky situation...

They have: 5 posts

Joined: Mar 2002

Thanks very much to everyone who has provided me with their honest and open feedback. This is exactly the kind of advice I've been looking for.

It appears to me that, as shown here, the concept for such a service that gives people a place to start their own content marketplaces is just too new for people to understand quickly. I admit that I have a difficult time explaining it because there's nothing that works exactly like it (except possibly Ebay but without the bidding). Somehow I'll have to simplfy the wording...

Coupled with that, the sense of "information wants to be free" is still a strong sentiment among websurfers (and webmasters it seems!). I would have thought that webmasters/moderators (whose living depends on Internet revenue models) would be looking forward to a day when content can be bought and sold easily between peers. There may be nothing I can do about this until the Internet changes some more. Eventually, I believe that much of the quality content will disappear from the web or be pushed into the realms of piracy. I never see the Internet ever going back to the "free information" days of the 90s again. (Ever read this blog: http://www.theendoffree.com?)

And to answer andilinks concern about micropayment billing, the system I have doesn't generate a telephone billing statement. Rather, as you buy things over time, your balance is just slowly added up until it hits a threshold of $5 before a transaction is captured from your credit card. Who does all the bookkeeping? My system does! Smiling

mairving's picture
Moderator

They have: 2,256 posts

Joined: Feb 2001

It's not that it is too new. It is mostly that you have to have something that people like that they can't get other places for free. Not only that but you have to herd the people to your site.

Mark Irving
I have a mind like a steel trap; it is rusty and illegal in 47 states

They have: 5 posts

Joined: Mar 2002

Quote: Originally posted by mairving
It's not that it is too new. It is mostly that you have to have something that people like that they can't get other places for free. Not only that but you have to herd the people to your site.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly...

I don't provide any of the content. I just offer "empty store space" to people who want to use it.

When you say "you have to have something that people like", in my mind, what _I_ have is a service (not content) that I'm giving out. Are you saying that the service is not desireable?

If you feel the _content_ you've seen is not desireable, then that's not my problem because independent parties are using my service to list/sell/giveaway whatever they want to. I don't control them or the content they upload. So I'm guessing that your comment applies to the people who are using my services and not to me?

My question to this forum here (that started the whole thing) is not that I can't get people to come and sign up to buy the content. (Again, that's not really my problem.) What I'm saying (in not so many words) is "Hey, I'm offering free webspace here with an ecommerce system built in to let you and others sell your own content. Wanna use it? Just sign up!"

And what's happening is that people don't want to use it. Usually, free resources are popular, but for some reason, this resource isn't getting people to sign up to use it. "Why not?" is what I want to know.

She has: 84 posts

Joined: May 2002

Quote: Wanna use it? Just sign up!"

I did, yesterday right after I posted my skeptical remarks. Smiling I do not want to discourage you, in fact I'm certainly hopeful this will work and then I will be able to say "I knew you when..." But my concern, which I and others have expressed already, is that the time is not yet right. So the next question is, do you have the staying power to last until the time is right? If you do, this will work. Being right isn't enough, you must be right at the right time. And being first is not always the key if all you do is provide a model for the next guy on "how not to do it." Best of luck, I will be exploring your site more in the coming days and weeks and if I come up with any more questions/complaints/suggestions I'll voice them here. I happen to be developing a website for which there seems to be no currently profitable model so I will observe with great interest. Smiling

Andrea

...the Rockies may tumble, Gibralter may crumble... G & I Gershwin, 1937

Megan's picture
Administrator

She has: 10,304 posts

Joined: Jun 1999

Quote: Originally posted by VTM
What I'm saying (in not so many words) is "Hey, I'm offering free webspace here with an ecommerce system built in to let you and others sell your own content. Wanna use it? Just sign up!"

Well say so! As I said above, part of the problem here is that the message is not as clear as it should be. Lose the e-commerce rhetoric and start talking to regular people. "P2P collaborative e-marketplaces" would mean nothing to the type of people I'm talking about. Usability is part of the problem here.

Are you getting the word out to the right sources? As I said above, I know some photographers who might be interested in this sort of thing so you may want to target that type of community in your advertising. I also know some people who provide videos online who may be interested as well.

They have: 5 posts

Joined: Mar 2002

Thanks for being so blunt. Smiling I've changed the message to be more direct. But it's still hard to be perfectly clear when it's something that still so new. (Well, I'm trying...)

Quote: Originally posted by Megan

Well say so! As I said above, part of the problem here is that the message is not as clear as it should be. Lose the e-commerce rhetoric and start talking to regular people. "P2P collaborative e-marketplaces" would mean nothing to the type of people I'm talking about. Usability is part of the problem here.

Are you getting the word out to the right sources? As I said above, I know some photographers who might be interested in this sort of thing so you may want to target that type of community in your advertising. I also know some people who provide videos online who may be interested as well.