Cost Of A professional Site

I doubt you will get anyone giving you figures on here as we don't discuss pricing. It's very, very hard to say what you would have quoted for a site as it's probably not been done how we'd do it anyway and without knowing all the facts I wouldn't offer a price.

You could probably use an hourly rate. Web designers prices usually range from $25-75/hr, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Corporate web design runs to the hundreds of dollars an hour. Just FYI. Programmers and graphic designers are highly trained folks and aren't particularly cheap.

You don't understand that teams of professionals who have been thoroughly trained, working in a large office with top-of-the-line equipment and ongoing training and project management and company management that work to create the site, the branding, the advertising, the content, the back-end programming and the client interface might cost more than someone working from home on what they have, learning on the job, collaborating with colleagues online and generally working on much smaller and less complex sites with smaller scope?

Freelancers and entrepreneurs tend to put in more time and charge for less and they suck up the loss. Large corporations and larger firms cannot do that. To a large extent, you get what you pay for -- sometimes a smaller company can give you exactly what you need for the smaller price tag. Sometimes a larger company is needed -- with their larger price tag.

Wow, dude, you dissing me?

No, I don't think that hundreds of dollars an hour is an unreasonable expense for professional, top quality work that has a great ROI.

For instance, lawyers charge a boatload more for much less "work". The importance of the work, however, makes it a reasonable expense.

OK well I guess that we can discuss how much designers can charge an hour but you are not going to tell me how much the site in question that I posted about would cost. I understand there are variables here, I was just looking for an approximation. Is the site professionally done and what is it worth? I wasn't looking for a precise amount in terms of each hour spent on it. I thought that given the fact that the designer was given the jpegs of the artwork and then built the site how much is the site worth. You two can bicker about much designers/developers charge, but I get this from "mjs416"

Quote: As for an estimation, we cant discuss it on these forums.

A tad hypocritical but that's fine.

You can estimate the hours it takes to do your project, no?
You can figure out how much per hour you want to make, no? try the http://www.monster.com wage tool to figure out the average wages and job descriptions for your region.

Most projects in this field are measured in hours x cost/hour.

Some people think you shouldn't, that you should come up with a set rate that doesn't involve hourly estimations, but web projects especially are prone to scope creep.

And no, we can't discuss hourly wages, at least not specifically. Averages, yes, but we can't tell you what to charge, as that's price fixing.

(p.s. everyone is hypocritical -- humans are constantly changing variables, which is also why we can't give you an estimate: we don't know what your market will bear, nor what is fair in your region.)

Huh? I'm not charging anything! My question as stated above is that a relative has had a site made and is concerned that she has got ripped off and needs to know what, approximately, she should have paid. She is pretty clueless regarding this kind of stuff, and I have no idea about pricing. I am not estimating anything about this project, I didn't do it. I am just doing my aunt a favor to see if some pro's could give me some feedback on a site that was built for her. That is all.

Quote: but we can't tell you what to charge, as that's price fixing.

I haven't even asked you to do that, it wasn't in my post!! The supposed "designer" hadn't even included CSS originally and I had to tell her what it was and that it should be used! But I am no designer or developer, I have never built a site for anyone nor have plans to, and only ask for opinions on what the site is worth in terms of "professionally" built. As stated before, the designer was given jpegs of the artwork and she built the site from there on.
I hope not to be pushy here, really. But from your replies it seems to me that you have not even read my original post. Let me put it this way, is the site professionally built and worth, say more than $1,000? Or would you say that it is poorly coded and worth no more than $200? Why, for example is there an Error at the end of each page? I'm just trying to do my aunt a favor here, nothing else. The deal is my aunt and the "designer" had no contract between them, they are/were somewhat friends and there has evolved a bit of a dispute out of this now.

PS If it is of real significance we are in Cambridge MA, smack bang between MIT and Harvard Uni, one of the most expensive markets in the US. Rents are unreal and it's bloody cold too.

Sorry, Fast, you're right, I came in to the thread at the tangent, not directly answering your question.

That's because, in essense, you're asking for something unreasonable. You're asking someone to second guess another designer, without knowing the scope, what was given, what had to be built, how much had to be redone, how much scope creep crept in, how long it took, how much of the content had to be coerced, et cetera. And you're asking for it to be done publicly.

Regardless, the same concepts apply -- how much did it cost, how many hours were put into it, and is that a reasonable rate (look at http://www.monster.com/ for average wages for this industry).

We don't review other people's work without their permission, however if the designer and your aunt approve, they can post the site in the Critique area for input on the design and coding aspects of it.

Ok, for the amount of pages and the amount of content, style of design/layout and the complexity of it all I would charge around £600 for this and have it done in a few days.

Thanks Webmistress for your reply, that's pretty much all I'm looking for. The £600 of course would be a site that was properly coded and that sounds like a reasonable price to me.

Suzanne - your quote

Quote: That's because, in essense, you're asking for something unreasonable. You're asking someone to second guess another designer, without knowing the scope, what was given, what had to be built, how much had to be redone, how much scope creep crept in, how long it took,

still makes me believe you are not reading what I have written, or at least not understanding it. It doesn't matter how long it took to build the site at all. It could've taken the designer a whole year to do. That would not mean anything. I wanted to know how much the site in it's present state and with the information I had given was worth. The designer was given the photos of the artwork and pretty much she built the site herself with some input from my aunt. No coding was done whatsover by my aunt. There are many, many instances in which a person feels they have been short changed and will look to others for advice. My aunt asked me to ask around as I am a little more knowledgeable in this area. It would be somewhat foolish to have my aunt and her designer get together and discuss it here.

I think Suzanne does understand, and has raised a valid point: It is wrong for us to pass comment on someone elses work without knowing anything of the background to the project...Suzanne being wrong is a very rare occurence, but for her to be wrong twice in the same thread just doesn't happen

LOL, Jeeves! ITA.

Price fixing is illegal in Canada in the US and probably other countries as well. What this means is that professionals can't get together and discuss what to charge for a project and therefore "fix" the price. Now, you could say that this isn't what you're doing, specifically. Maybe not, but many designers will be reading this thread, see certain numbers, and may decide that that's what they should charge. In that way, any discussion of pricing on forums like this is a difficult issue. Take you (Fast) out of the discussion and you've got something that could be considered price fixing. Best to be on the safe side.

What you could do instead is approach some desgingers privately and ask what they would charge for a similar project. However, as Suzanne said, you'd have to know more about the details of the project.

About Suzanne's talk about pricing being higher for large companies, you have to remember that they have a lot of other expenses than a smaller company would. Probably a big office to pay rent and utilities on. Support staff, managers, a team of professionals, related office furniture, equipment, supplies etc.

Quote:
Price fixing is illegal in Canada in the US and probably other countries as well. What this means is that professionals can't get together and discuss what to charge for a project and therefore "fix" the price. Now, you could say that this isn't what you're doing, specifically.

Oh man! I wasn't doing it specifically or even generally. Now I enjoy this site, it is very informative, but it is only an iddy-biddy little spot on the web. The designers who do come here and read this thread are hardly going to change the face of costs of pricing web sites after reading this. I am grateful for people for responding to my questions here but I also think that people are placing to much emphasis on something that really doesn't exist. Price fixing is illegal in the US and Canada no doubt but let's not lose context here please. My aunt had a site made by a friend who said she was a designer. My aunt felt a little cheated about one site made for her. I have to say that I really feel this was blown out of proportion here. Price fixing! Really.

Surely it's better to be safe than rotting in jail? And why wouldn't someone change their prices according to what is written here? Knowing Webmistress' prices could potentially be vey useful to me - I only live in the next county Although I don't care what they charge, the opportunity of explaining that to a court isn't something I relish!

Anyway, we're not here to talk about how much we charge - the focus of the forums is technical and design discussions pertaining to web sites.

Fast wrote: I am wanting to know from people who build sites professionally how much they think a particular site would cost to build. This is a site made for a relative of mine and which she is largely happy with. There has however become a slight animosity between my relative and the designer of the site who is a friend of sorts. Unfortunately no contract was ever made either prior to or during the sites construction and now there is some bickering going on. I would like to know from those with experience what sort of price a designer of this site should charge. The images were largely manipulated by my relative and not the designer though not in all cases. Other than that the site was built completely by the designer with ideas from both of them.

The site
http://annaferri.com/

Thanks a lot

You can complain about people not reading your posts all you want, but I must say, it was not clear what you were asking for initially. Suzanne then basically states that you are asking us to second guess another designer and that it is unreasonable - which I agree with. You then say again, that people arent reading your posts- when in fact they are. They just do not want to respond to other peoples work or discuss the specifics.

My advice: If the designer charged 75 dollars an hour, and she spent 10 hours on it, your aunt should have been charged 750 dollars. IMO, thats probably acceptable given there are at least 6 pages including a gallery.

Quote: Surely it's better to be safe than rotting in jail? And why wouldn't someone change their prices according to what is written here? Knowing Webmistress' prices could potentially be vey useful to me - I only live in the next county Although I don't care what they charge, the opportunity of explaining that to a court isn't something I relish!. Although I don't care what they charge, the opportunity of explaining that to a court isn't something I relish!

And this is EXACTLY what I mean by this being blown out of proportion. There is absolutely nothing illegal here at all. I have asked only what people think a site is worth. No "fixing", no nothing illegal. Ridiculous. Webmistress would not have even offered her opinion if it was. Rotting in jail? Explaining to a judge? What?!! So what if you know how much someone in your field charges. That isn't fixing. It is an indication of how much people can command for their work. This is absurd. Even mjs416 is piping in now with his/her opinion too (thank you). That is fine, she/he doesn't have too of course but as for anything illegal well you are being rather silly. I bet you have never jaywalked either. Personally I don't find the fact that I want a site to be viewed by some "professionals" and asking for their opinions (second guessing as you put it) as unreasonable. If you had your car fixed (assuming you have one) and you were either unhappy with the result or the cost, or both, would it be unreasonable to have it checked out by some other mechanics without the original mechanics knowledge? I don't happen to personally know any designers and with it being a website in question and it being on the web itself I thought going to a website for website builders would be a reasonable place to go and ask.

Actually, before I get my car fixed, if I don't know the mechanic, I get recommendations from people I trust on mechanics they trust, I get estimates from various garages on the work that needs to be done, and I check with the BBB for outstanding complaints. If it's a lot of work (over $750, say), I'll also check into the licenses of the people doing the work.

I most certainly do not go into the auto mechanics union and ask them if I got a good deal.

If I felt like I didn't after the fact (hard to do if you've done the research in the first place), then I would do the research after the fact -- talk to different mechanics and get estimates privately about whether it was worth what I was charged. If necessary, I would take a complaint to the Better Business Bureau for arbitration.

I'm not always right, truly. But it still seems to me that you're asking for unprofessional behaviour from people who CAN lose their business licenses for it. Julia is in a country not covered by these rules, yes. I, however, am not, and I'm not going to risk my business license because your aunt is miffed. As I've said twice now, you can look up a reasonable rate for the work performed at services like Monster.com, and you should have an idea how long it took (which is relevant, if the rate was based on an hourly wage, much like the labour portion of a mechanic's bill) and can decide if it was in the right range or not.

It would appear that the true value of the site is at question -- not that your aunt paid too much for it, but that she didn't get what she wanted or it's not meeting her needs. If that's the case, she should be forthright with the designer (or another web developer) and come to some resolution.

As for the code -- yes there are some issues with it, which is why I suggested a critique. Specifically, it would be good if the email address wasn't raw. To that end, you can tell your aunt, or your aunt's friend about hiveware.com which has a product (online and on your computer, your choice), called Enkoder which will hide the email address from spiders so your aunt isn't inundated with spam. Just follow the directions provided, or post in the web authoring forum and someone can help you or your aunt or your aunt's friend with it if need be.

Thanks Suzanne. I wasn't looking for any arguments or anything like that I was just putting my point across.

As it happens the email address was something I had mentioned to my aunt and designer as I am aware of email harvesting software for spammers. I had suggested another email acct. such as Yahoo but I was pretty much vetoed on that and didn't push the issue. Your suggestion of Enkoder sounds promising and I will look into that. Fortunately my aunt has not had an increase in spam but it will only be a matter of time before that address gets into a spammers hands.

I would say this site is worth at least $1000. Maybe up to $3000. It's a very good design.