After some help with contracts

found some interesting links if anyone is interested, would still like to hear anyones opinions on the above thou.

http://www.provider.com/contracts.htm
http://www.newmedia.com/nm-ie.asp?articleID=3440

We basically send them a letter outlining what we will be doing for them, the pages to be included on the site, any graphics work, domain name reg & hosting, etc. Then we quote the full price, stating that once we have the initial layout/design done and they are happy with it we need 25% upfront payment and when that's received we continue with the site and invoice upon completion. We also state that any changes will be charged at an hourly rate of whatever, although when this does actually happen we charge it according to client/job. If they are going to be using our marketing services we will outline our costs for this and explain what we do for them.

We do not actually class this as a contract for them to sign and send back though.

When I first started out and searched the web for contracts, there appeared to be really only one out there in various guises. I've only used it twice in 3 years as I find it cumbersome and wordy.

general elements...

- clarify what's included
- clarify what's *not* included
- how content is to be provided (ie. electronically)
- timeframe
- price
- payment terms (including repercussions of cancellation)
- copyright (clarifying both your rights to your intellectual property AND the client's ownership or rights to whatever material they provide you with
- reserve the right to subcontract
- you do not guarantee search engine performance
- you are not responsible for the general performance or non-performance of the site overall
- client responsibility for hosting
- client's permission for you to access server

These are all off the top of my head and I'm just waking up. I'll add more if they occur to me.

Pricing (without specifics ):

I basically price by scope, excluding "advanced programming". Set yourself ranges based on page count (an imperfect but workable measurement) and give them nice little names.

eg -

Small Business Brochure (up to 5 pages)
Medium Business Brochure (6-10 pages)
etc.

If you can bundle your advanced features such as PHP directories, events calendars, etc - all the better. Makes it easier to plug and play a quotation. Otherwise, deal with them on a case by case situation.

I always quote modularly so that the prospective client always knows where that bottom line is coming from and can never say "but I thought that **** was included in the base price. Also, if the final price is too scary, they can always look up the list and say "let's pass on the **** module for the time being and go with the rest"

Base your pricing on two things:

1/ your "local" market (although local is a dubious term in this line of work)
2/ what you need to be profitable.

Interesting, thanks

would it be wise to include a clause stating any editing of the code voids certain things or is against the copyright bit if I would still own them.
Also what if they removed the copyright or designed by sections on the site, or even claimed as their own.
It's quite scary reading some of the horror stories that happen from time to time. I don't want to present the client with what loks like a copy of war and peace but would like to be covered or safe.

grrr, I lost a lengthy reply. I'll try again later

A lot of what you are saying busy assumes that the clients already have hostng and access to it plus would access it and change things. IME my clients don't generally have webspace already and if they do they have to get the previous designers to pass the ftp details on to me as that's something they have never taken any interest in. IMO when a client buys a design from you it is then their copywrite and it's a bonus to be able to put your name to it on the site, if they then decide to get things changed, either by themselves or someone else, as long as they don't take credit for the design I don't think there is much you can do.

oops - I never did get back to this thread. Sorry Busy.

I think we had the "who owns what" debate in another thread somewhere. If I remember correctly, we were all over the map on that subject. Whatever your opinion, a contract would serve to clarify it.

Like I said earlier, I almost never use my contract. But then again, I'm pretty laid back in my approach to things and am probably not the best example to follow - I got into this business to get away from the corporate mindset. While this might cost me some of the more rigid clients, I'm pretty sure that it nets me more that appreciate being able to deal with someone who still believes in handshakes.

Don't get me wrong. I do document things via proposals, electronic communications, etc. They may lack the nuances of fine print but do serve to support a claim of "this much site" for "that much money".

My view on copyright and intellectual property? Let's face it, I'm not pumping out Picasso's here. While I believe that I probably do retain the rights to my creations unless explicitly signed away, as long as I was paid for the job, I'm not going to moan about it. I've only ever had one site so bastardized by in-house maintenance that I had to request the removal of my site credit, drop it from my portfolio, and move on.

I've never *not* gotten paid the agreed amount for a job and I always get half of that up front.

Go with whatever works for you and you feel comfortable with. The day after I get burned, I may be singing a brand new song

Thanks again everyone

Julia, a lot of the sites I'm doing at the moment are remakes, one of them started out as "can you just fix that page" and now I've redone the whole site and they still want additions. the money sucks but I am getting referals from them

I think I might drop the contract idea, seems very formal and stiff anyways, and I'd perfer to stay free and easy (omg it's starting to sound like a dang advert for washing powder or something)

I think having some sort of contract is always a good idea even if you want to take a more laid back approach. In my experience the clients that I have needed my contract the most for are the small businesses who want me to do something unethical or illegal. Having my contract (in all it's 7 page glory) to fall back on has saved my hide on a few occassions.

Some of the most common issues I have had are dealing with trademark and copyright infringement. Some of my small business clients just don't understand, or care to understand that they simply can't steal someone elses material. This is certainy not exclusive to small business but I have experienced this with my own small business clients.

I have been meaning to have my husband "translate" my contract into English for those that would like to use something without a bunch of legal language in it, but anyone that would like to use the long version is welcome to it. Add, edit, and/or remove at will. The contract has been reviewed by attorneys licensed in the following states: Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, South Dakota, Florida, California, Nevada, Oregon, Georgia, and Illinois. I strongly recommend that you have any contract you use be reviewed by an attorney.

Thanks Rayna, when you say it's licensed in certain states, does that mean it's not valid in the unmentioned states? or do you mean its been registered in the states mentioned?

Sorry am not up with American state concept

It just means that attorneys licensed to practice law in those states have reviewed the contract. Sorry for the confusion.