What's the general attitude about Warez?

if these companies didn't charge so much for they're software, I don't think this would be as big of a problem.

I bought Half-Life, thinking I could play with my bro on the internet. NOPE! you have to have a registered CD Key to play online, and you only get one. SO what do I do? Well, I'm the kind of guy to go fork out another $40, just so I can get my bro to play. Instead I spend HOURS searching the net for VALID CD Keys that are registered with WON.

I would rather Siera sold the game for $40 (or cheaper), and then sold aditional keys for $5 (with proof of a purchase). They could ship the product with 'coupons' that you could redeem for discounted CD Keys. Why don't they??? Because they are GREEDY! So until they clean up they're act, I'll buy one copy and look for keys.

Thank you,

Quote: Originally posted by Seapaddler

Have you ever made a cassette tape of your favorite CD songs for your friend? Hey that's illegal!
. . . .
Have you ever bought a used book at a used book store? The only royalties the author or publisher see are from the initial purchaser. Is this not manuscript piracy?
. . . .
Have you ever photocopied a newspaper article and gave it to someone? Hey that's illegal!
. . . .
Have you ever bought a used album? Again no royalties go back to the artist or the producer but it can be sold over and over again. Should this not be illegal?
. . . .
How many times have you recorded a TV show? Hey that is proprietary material!
. . . .
Have you ever loaned a book/novel to a friend? They then happily read it and give it back. Hey they should've paid for the privilege of reading that material! You just cheated the author and the publisher!

Nope. On all, actually. You see, once you have purchased the item, you now own the royalties to it. That is what you pay for: the right to have all royalties and such transfered to you. Which means that you can sell the book if you want--it's now your property and you're free to do whatever you want with it. Cable Providers pay for the right (and they pay big bucks) for the right to display a Network's shows. So, the Cable Providers have just purchased the right to do what they will, and if "what they will" constitutes as providing it in a medium that can be easily copied, then guess what? The Networks are S.O.L. if they want to do anything about it.

As to my personal views on Warez (and we're talking pirated software [that is software where you'd download--if you friend loans you the CD then see above]) I'll say this; if you don't have the money (or just won't spend it) perhaps it's not time to start messing with the Software, eh? Besides, some of these people live off the money you spend. $50 seems like a lot, but that $50 goes a long way. The store employees get paid, the and the game company gets paid. What happens if you do this unendingly? You go out of business. And you know what? We've lost a lot of great companies because of piracy, and it sickens me that somebody'd be low enough to do that.

Well, there's different types and forms of warez. Obviously, I am totally against someone selling illegal copies of softwares/music, etc. and making a profit from it. However, while it's not right, a friend sharing his software with another friend doesn't seem all that bad.

Software piracy is a bit of a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" situation. The companies blame high prices on the money lost to piracy and the warez traders blame the high software prices as the reason for warez existence. The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in the middle. Companies do lose billions of dollars to pirated software and otherwise honest people who would never steal a pack of gum are using illegal copies of Photoshop simply because they can't afford $600 for a single program. I'm kind of ambivalent about the entire thing. While I don't use pirated software now that I can afford to purchase what I need, I did trade games back and forth with my friends ages ago when none of us could afford to buy them. While perhaps that's wrong, I also never felt any major guilt about it.

With all the time each of us has wasted tracking down patches for software that should work properly out of the box and all the money we've wasted on programs that never work as advertised no matter how many patches are applied, it's hard to feel any sympathy for the software distributors. The attitude becomes something like "I wasted $100 on this piece of garbage, 4 hours trying to get it to work, and another 2 hours repairing the damage it did to my system, those bastards owe me! So I'll just take 2 programs for free to make up for it". While that might just be rationalization, there is a grain of truth involved. The software makers lack of quality control shows little regard for the end user and the end user returns the feelings.

It's important to differentiate between the internet-style warez, cracks, key-makers, and other means of file-sharing and the true black-market or grey-market sales of pirated software. While somebody selling illegal copies of Photoshop on the Asian market will damage Adobe's sales, I honestly don't think that warez on the internet is as big a problem as it's cracked up to be. Much like the RIAA crying about Napster allowing music piracy as CD sales increase, warez can help a company. There's an entire generation of internet users using cracked versions of industry-standard programs like Photoshop and Microsoft Office and becoming proficient and trained on them. That insures that those programs will remain market leaders and those people that are pirates now because of financial necessity will become legit users later in life. Let's face it, most of the people who are downloading cracked copies of software would not be able to buy it, so truly no sales are lost and no physical inventory is lost. The companies that are getting hurt or driven out of business by pirated software are the victims of the large-scale sales of copied disks, not because 2 teenagers in Hoboken figured out a way around the Photoshop downloadable demos protection scheme.

Wow, lots of long messages. I've never used warez but I have used a crack once for a program. I don't think I would do it if the programs didn't cost so much in the first place.

If I could afford the software and I was using it to produce an income (I.E a graphics designer, or web designer) then I would purchase the software. However I only want to use it to gain experience or do simple jobs for my website. I don't believe it's right for me to pay $700 for a product when I will never ever use it to make money for me in return.

I think there is only a couple programs I have that could be classified as "warez".

Ravi

I think that there is a huge difference between getting a copy of Flash from a friend and using a key from Serials 2000 to register it, then learning the program. However, if someone were to take that same cenario and begin to sell their services using that copy, I would consider that WORNG.

I think that if a person can learn to use a big variety of programs then they will sooner, or later, be using them legally. Like someone else said, that copy of Flash that the teenager down the street is using is not going to hurt Macromedia. He could have never been able to afford it anyways! So he knows it inside out, then one day he applies for a job and he says he knows how to use Flash, if he uses it on a regular basis at work, then he will, or BETTER be, using a legal copy.

I, myself, could not afford to use Flash, Director, Acrobat, Dremweaver, PhotoShop, ect. because it costs WAY too much for my meager budget. However, if they cost around a quarter of the price, then I would be able to use ALL of them. I think that MANY people would buy the software that is now expensive and only used legally by the professionals. Most of those people who are using "warez" software would not be using it, instead they would have a legal version. This would result in a much higher rate of sales for the big companies, giving them probably the same amount of revenue, if not more. Of course there would still be the losers that would refuse to pay ANYTHING for the software. But in that case there would be far fewer people with illegitimate software so it would be easier to crack down on those people that have the warez stuff. As it is way to many people use warez so it's very hard to keep a handle on.

All in all, it's a two way street, software companies lower your prices, and users, buy it out-right.

God Bless,

Alex

In a way, I dislike people who steal software. I (legally) purchased a few games, and my friends all want me to burn it for them. I really don't think it's right that they should get a $50 game for free, while I pay my (hard earned) money to buy it.

If no one stole software, PhotoShop would cost less than $600.

No amount of excuses can justify the pirating of software. If it's a program you need then you should find a way to purchase it legally. As for games, copying them is just as lame as copying any other type of software.

If you want to learn any type of software most offer a trial period, and as for games most of those offer demos so you don't have to waste your money if it's crap.

Yes it hurt's sometimes to pay large amount's of money for software but I feel good knowing that I'm basically supporting myself (web/software developer).

Warez is just a lame excuse for getting free stuff under the guise of "Power to the People". I don't mean to sound to harsh, but maybe when some of you start creating software for a living you might feel differently.

BTW I'm a proud collector of computer and video games with a library over 1000, all original.

(not a lawyer, not a legal opinion)

You can't use books or newspapers as an analogy. When you sell or give a book you retain no copy or control over it. If you made a copy of the entire book and gave or sold it then that might be illegal. It's my understanding that court cases (at least in the USA) have said newspapers are public domain. You can freely quote or reproduce them so long as you aren't charging people for the copy or representing it as your own work.

That was the argument that almost de-railed VCR's. Studios claimed that by people being able to record shows they were loosing money (don't quite understand that myself). VCR makers proved in court that most people just use VCR's to watch shows alternate hours.

Hi,

I hear both sides and I don't agree the pirating software is right, or legal, but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong. I'm sure this subject could get very heated, but I don't think it should go that far.

i.e. Lets say a 15 year old wants to download Graphics Package RRR in the hopes of learning and applying some sort of designing skills. I chose a 15 year old as most are dependent on their parents or guardians for life's most basic needs (housing..food..)

Is it fair to ask this 15 year old to pay $400 for the product? And if s/he downloads the trial, do you seriously think they are going to learn anything meaningful within that 30 day period? In turn if this person did download this software, became very very good at using it, and used those skills to earn a living do you think that 15 year old, 10 years down the line when they are earning a living, will still be pirating software? I don't think so. The point is, most people who are downloading warez are probably younger people. I don't believe many older people who make an income are going to search far and wide for some illegal program which cost $100.

I think there are many different situations that could be presented. The one I did, I think it is "ok" but no right nor wrong for someone to do. Games are totally different...I have never nor will I ever used a pirated game. I'm not trying to justify any use of illegal software but it exists, and it will always exists no matter what is said in this thread. I am trying to provide a reason as to why it exists and what can be done about it. These big companies know it exist, and it part I think they like that because while that person who is using that software he/she is still a consumer of that product but not always a customer, but hopefully one day that consumer will becomew a customer.

Just my 2 cents.
Ravi

Ravi,

You make a good point, but is there any reason why the 15 year old has to start with a $400 program? Last time I checked Paint Shop Pro could be had for $99 Canadian. While it's definitely not up to PhotoShop caliber it would make a great learning tool.

I agree that most of the people using warez are young and you might say that "they wouldn't have bought it anyway", but if we took that approach then our economy would become really messed up. Just imagine, walking into a Porsche dealership and taking a car, Dealer: "Hey what are you doing!?", You: "Don't worry I wasn't going to buy it anyway's so I'll just take it". Make sense?

You can try to justify it (learning, too expensive, etc) but in the end it's still stealing.

Sorry but that's just how I feel.

Hi,

Like I said, I am not trying to justify it at all. I think it is wrong to compare a Porsche to a software graphics program as they are two totally different products which are used for two totally different reasons.

I think you can classify people who use warez into two different catergories (at least for graphics software):

1) People who don't have any intentions on buying the product and steal because they can.

2) People who want to buy the product but can't afford it.

So are you saying people who cannot afford the software shouldn't be able to use it period? So how is anyone suppose to learn? When they have enough money to afford it in their..mid 20's for example, are they suppose to buy it then? and then spend another 4 years learning how to use it with everything else going on in their lives? What benefit will that be? I bet you anything, that the younger generation using it today by using pirated copies will be the SAME kids corporations hire to work for their company. And then do you think they will continue to use pirated versions? No..like I was saying, if the company thought it was THAT big of a problem you would probably hear about it more often then you do now. They know that people who are willing to go out and find pirated copies mostly are the ones who will be promoting and using their products (and stick to that product).

Ravi

Ok, I am LT. Kenneth Prescott from the FBI. I am placing you all under arrest, on the cause of, using pirated software, and or considering it.

Hmm, I think that its ok to download software and use the cracks, if you learn it, decide you likes its capabilites and eventually by it.

Im not going to buy Photoshop, then decide i like Jasc's PSP better and not use Adobe Ever again, no no..
(I dont like Paint Shop Pro Better Thoug)

But thats what I think anyways.

Quote: Originally posted by Peter J. Boettcher
Ravi,

You make a good point, but is there any reason why the 15 year old has to start with a $400 program?

I'm 15, and I think I could really use PhotoShop at home. Right now, I use PSP and Fireworks, and PhotoShop at school. I've been using Fireworks for a year just because I can't afford to buy Photoshop. I don't think it's fair that because I am earning minimum wage I am not able to use a good piece of software. I am not saying that I should be able to use it illegally, but I really think there should be some sort of underage discount.

If there was some sort of a discount, no one would be busy cracking Dreamweaver and Photoshop, they'd pay half the price for the software and have it legally, instead.

I don't think that cracking software for yourself is a big deal, though. The real problem is the people who make money off distributing illegal copies of programs. I know several people who sell custom burned CDs for $5. He even sold one to my teacher, who thought it was legal.

Today, I was given a huge amount of a book that had been copied. My teacher told the class "The school has run out of books, so I copied a book for you guys". This is pretty illegal, and her 60 students (3 periods) are reading illegal material.

I guess maybe I'm in the minority here, that's to bad. I agree that everything should be done to try and lower the costs of software so that everyone can buy it, but that still doesn't justify stealing it.

The net/warez makes it so easy that it doesn't feel like stealing but it's no different than walking into your local software shop walking over to the software shelf and slipping a program under your jacket and walking out. It's stealing plain and simple, there is no gray area.

I guess this debate could go on forever so I guess I'll just leave it at that.

Here are my thoughts:

Piracy is wrong, bottom line. I once wanted to download a program through warez, but be it through broken links or my conscience (I'm not sure which, maybe a combination of the two), I didn't.

I don't think I'll ever go out and blatantly download a program for free like that.

However: my mother bought a copy of Photoshop on eBay - she thinks it may have been pirated, but she's not sure. We use it anyway on one of our computers, and I plan to install it on mine as well. We bought it at a very good price as well.

While I feel that technically we're breaking some rules, we're not blatantly stealing, and it's all for internal family use. I have no qualms about buying Windows or Microsoft Office and installing it on 3 or 4 computers, but I do have a problem with blatant, shameless warez.

And heck, I still have WinZip on my computer, and I havn't paid for it yet. Ditto for WS_FTP.

I do intend to pay for these one day, but right now I'll be honest: I can't bring myself to.

so someone using Warez is different from someone purchasing warez ? what's your excuse ? you're not sure if it's pirated? It's obvious to me that your act of buying what "seems" to be a pirated copy commands more shame then someone downloading warez for their own personal use, by encouraging that person who pirated it to sell to others who can't tell the difference between pirated and real. If you were unsure you should have bought it from Adobe, or at least did a little research.

Ravi

We can't "do a little research" here - it in and of itself looks legitimate, however we simply suspect that the person who sold it to us may have copied it before selling this copy, which looks like the one straight from Adobe.

And yes, blatant downloading is worse in this case. Why? Because we're paying for what is itself a legitimate copy (it's not a burned disc, it's got the Adobe logo/background on it, etc).

What you said, was: "So someone downloading warez is worse than someone purchasing warez?" - only problem with this is that I didn't say I was purchasing warez - we might have, we don't know. In that case, I think the blatant downloading is worse.

If it's too good to be true, normally it is. And if you are concerned about it being pirated, it probably is.

Oh well, eBay rules!!!

Dangitt, I had a 2/3 paragraph reply typed up, hit submit, and it told me I had to fill in the subject. Maybe I clicked "New Thread." Heck, doesn't matter anyway.

I demand a fuzzy bunny!

Hahaha, Mike I think you need help.

Quote: Originally posted by Parker Trasborg
Hahaha, Mike I think you need help.

You just realized that?

I haven't been here very long but even I know enough to know he's needs help.... I feel for him, mabey we should take up an offering for him.

Yes! Send money in sealed brown envelopes to c/o Mike Fisher Psychiatric Help Fun to...

haha

Getting back to the subject, it is just as illegal to use Office 2000 on 3 computers as it is to download Office 2000 and let 3 friends use it.

Please. If you're gonna buy my two more copies of Office for me to use, Aidan, then I'm all for it. I installed Photoshop on my home PC, and also my laptop, does that make me a criminal?

Technically, it does. But we still like you Mike.

Bah. I strongly disagree with that stand point. I bought the software, I didn't buy a license. When that CD steps into my house, come hell or high water, I'll do what I want with it. Since Adobe has so much theoretical power, let's see what'll happen if I snap the CD in half. Is Adobe going to come to my house and give me a spanking? I've been a bad boy!

I haven't been keeping up with this post, it's late, and I don't feel like reading all this right now. But..

Has anyone mentioned the STUDENT DISCOUNT that you can get on software?

I bought PS 5.5 about a year and a half ago for about $300 at the college bookstore. From my understanding, any student (I think HS included) can get the Educational Version with a Student ID.

You should ask your nearest school bookstore if your eligable. Tell them you go to school at and your wanted to know if you could purchase the Educatoinal Version of .

Then ask for the price (to make sure they know what they're talking about). The Educational Version of most products is about half of the pirce of the regular version.

The problem with Educational versions is that they are meant for educational purposes only. I don't know exactly what all that encompasses from a legal point of view though. You certainly can't use them for anything you're getting paid for.

as far as morals/ethics go, I think it's better to buy the Educational Version than get the warez...

Yeah, better to pay than to get it totally free. Mike: I agree with you but technically I think it is illegal.

Yeah, I bet your right, Adobe spanking me 'cause I'm a bad boy is illegal..

LOL!!

I think that Warez isn't a good thing by any means but it has allowed many of the young webmasters of today to learn their craft - I agree with most of what has been said above in that I see nothing wrong with installing Office on 2 PCs. I actually thought it was legal as long as its not being used simultaneously on 2 PCs, but either way it isn't gonna stop me buying my Office disk and installing it on both my desktop, my laptop and maybe the PC the rest of my family use.

BTW I already know some of you from SitePoint, except I'm known as James over there

Welcome to TWF, James!

Yes, welcome James. Hope to talk to you on ICQ more about vbulletin. hehehe

Thanks Marc and Parker - I'm gonna try and visit/post here daily now

Mike, Admit it, you like the spankings : )

Welcome James. Have fun while your here...

These are not excuses, just my views on why I think piracy is rife in the software world. I think selling pirated software for a profit is wrong. Letting someone borrow your copy for a while, should not be wrong, but it is!

Why is Warez or Pirated software rife?

1. Many people believe the software is over priced, all they see is a box, a cd, a manual (maybe!) very often the software's value in features is long forgotten.

2. A lot of Software is very badly written, rushed, too many version releases for no gain in real features, bug fixes, and this list of problems could go on. Some occasional software released is outstanding, this is rare.

3. Software manufacturers have ways of making software fairly secure, but they won't pay for the extra security.

4. 30 day demo's are NOT long enough for use on a home PC, however on a company PC, maybe, just long enough. A lot of people find cracks and hacks and serials for full featured demo versions and afterwards forget they even installed the software until they come across it again. Others just want to play with the software for longer than 30 days, get bored and delete it from the HDD. Others don't.

Strange really, but ever since software came about, there has been pirate copies in some form or other. Surely this should tell the software companies something? The fact you can only install a piece of software on one system is one place to start! Even MOLPS are way too expensive!
It's the licensing idea that is wrong.

And how come, once a game is over a certain age, why is it you can buy it for around £10 (retail boxed original) instead of £40 when it was new? The only thing that has changed is, time and the amount of copies sold since release! Same with computer parts, they get cheaper as time goes on (old technology), why were they not released at the optimum, cheapest price possible when originally released? HMM.

Large Profits.
Cheaper Software = many sales = large profit
Expensive software = fewer sales = pirated software = large profit

I don't agree with Warez, pirate software making profits, but someone better think quick about the software licensing structure, and soon.