Opinions on Napster

Napster is CLASS !!!!

Who cares about the record companies losing out. They are the ones charging like £15 for a CD that probably cost about a pound to make. I get my songs for free thats all I care about.

Long live live Napster!!!

Hi,

start thinking.

Do you know what the bands get from their CD sales ?
Usually around 8-10% (if they made a very good deal).
Now deduct taxes and divide it by the band members.
And you end up at around 20c per CD per member.
So if you sell 500.000 you get around 100.000. Wow, big money
(Been there, done that !!)

If you don't sell CDs you don't go platinum
If you don't go platinum you live from less money than an IT professionell gets
(Why am I in the IT business ?? Just guess.)

Why do you want everything for free ?
It's stealing.
And it's wasting money.
Did you ever consider what it costs to download a whole album as MP3 ?
Just a few "costs":
disk space: ~60MB -> ~$5
phone cost: ~20min -> $.5 (you don't pay that ? take a course in economics, since you _do_)
equipment(pc+monitor+xxx): $2000 (cheap one) divided by 500 records (then your system is obsolete) -> $4

Wow, you end up with $10 and there is much more to add (backups on cd ?, lyrics ?, time wasted finding the songs ?)

So you end up paying much more than you would have by buying it.
You are hurting the bands.

To keep it short:
By keeping your eyes closed you are shooting yourself in the head !!!

ciao
Anti

Firstly Anti,

Do as you say, Start Thinking. Do you seriously think anyone is going to buy a computer simply to download MP3's so that they can scam music artist. The users who make the most use of Napster are college students. Know why?

1) When you're in college you are basically required to have a computer of some sort.

2) MOST universities offer high speed networks and connections throughout classroms, libraries and dorms.

3) If you have the above two, why would you travel to the store, simply to buy a CD when you can download the song within a minute (download speeds reach 0.5 MB a sec and higher) via the University network?

After all that babble Anti, you still didnt give your thoughts on NAPSTER. Personally, I think it's totally legitimate. It's a service provided that allows USERS to trade MP3's. Not all MP3's are copyrighted and some artist whis their MP3's to be distributed freely. If they shut down Napster why wont they shut down ICQ ? You can trade alot more illegal files via ICQ. Or even AOL Instant Messanger? I don't believe Napster is illegal, it's what the users do with the program that makes it illegal.

Thats what I think about Napster

Ravi

I think Napster is great, but if people keep suing them then they'll go under. When that happens I'll move to Gnutella. But anyway... I do believe that MP3s take away money from the record industry, but it's not that bad. Just last week I went into a crowded Sam Goody store in the mall which was packed!

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Critiquing over 1000 sites on the Internet today...

60 megs of disk space costs 5 bucks?
So my hard drive would cost me about $3,333 which is higher than the price of my while computer.

wow
what an age we live in

Anti,

1. Again people have computers anyhow. No ones going to go and and but one to get mp3's ? ? ? ?

I download my mp3's from work.

This means Phone costs free.

hard disk free. (you can wipe them once you burned to wavs and then to cd.)

Soo, I haven't spent anything apart from the price of a CD, which cost me about 69p from work.

69 p or £15, hhhhmmmmm what shall I go for ? I think it'll be 69p each time somehow.

However I agree Napster will probably go down if it keeps getting sued but then I'm sure something simular will come out.

Yeah, the bands may suffer, more so the new ones. Thats just the way its going to be while stuff like Napster is about.

My friend works at a well known high tech company in the Silicon Valley. They had to block Napster from the network, as over 80% of all traffic was MP3’s. I see that as a larger problem then the record companies losing out. For the most part bands have gotten into the whole MP3 market and enjoy the extra exposure. If someone really likes a CD they’ll go buy the CD. I still do.

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Adam
AIS Internet Solutions
adam@aisinternet.com
www.aisinternet.com

I think Napster is great. Quite a few bands/artists support it actually. If it goes down then people will just go to another program just like it...I searched and there are tons of them. www.cutemx.com I found that the other day. It looks pretty good. My friend switched to that ever since Metallica kicked him off Napster.

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~Parker Trasborg~
TWF Moderator and Dumby of the 21st Century

Well, I am more musical oriented, more than I am computer oriented, and if you think I know alot about computers, I know more about music.

Actually, I have had that since September (Napster). When it first started out there were only 10,000 files on it, or once cause I found of it early, and there were only 100 users on.

Since then I use it all the time. Went from all the Beta's and am now using Version 6. I think that its a great program, just using it the wrong way.

I have undoubtedly the largest collection of songs of a certain group. I always am adding more to it, and I will add about 15 more tonight, easily.

I think once that Napster is gone, there is then Gnuetella. Then there is CuteMX. Then there is Scour. Then after that there is iMesh.

So, there is along way to go. If those all fail, just get on IRC, or keep on going and looking at FTP's.

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What's a signature?

Anti, perhaps you're in the IT business because your math skills didn't qualify you for a job as a cashier at McDonalds.

60MB of space = 60 cents or less
phone cost = 0 (you pay for the phone or broadband connection if you use it or not)

Now, show me a group making 8-10% of the cost of their CDs and I'll show you a group that has their own record label or a big name megagroup with a sweetheart deal from their label. Most groups make pennies per CD and that only comes after some arbitrary sales figure is reached. On the 1st X number of copies the group doesn't make a dime.

Let's look a little deeper into the math. The cost of producing a professional CD in volume is about a buck a disc. That includes the disc itself, the jewel case, the printed liner, shrink-wrap, etc. The retailer pays $8 to $9 for that disc and sells if for $10 to $15. Okay, all retailers make a profit. The record companies pays the artist a few pennies and pocket the rest as profit. Well, they killed the goose that layed the golden egg.

Since day 1 the record companies have spouted the same old tired lies that discs were expensive to manufacture and that prices would come down as volume went up. That worked for a while, but now the consumer knows the real truth. The labels sign the artists to slave-labor contracts, gouge the consumer mercilessly and cry foul when their iron-fisted style of ruling is challenged. The revolution has come and the record companies are on the losing side. They're just too dumb to recognize that fact.

Let's face it, Napster, Gnutella and IRC music-swapping channels ARE NOT the problem here. It's the mindset of the disgruntled consumer that spawned such services, not the fact that such services exist that spawned piracy. A generation of music listeners got tired of getting ripped off and decided to do something about it. Is what's happening here any different than a bunch of men dumping tea in Boston harbor to protest price-gouging? Not really, it's just that 200 years have turned those men into patriots and record company spin-doctors have turned Napster users into thieves. Civil disobedience is the American way. Now it's time for the record companies to face the new reality or to perish like the dinosaurs that we perceive them to be.

A few things to ponder:
1) Do you honestly believe that even if the recording industry wins this fight and closes down Napster that the music business will return to the cash-cow old boys network that it was a few years ago?
2) If mp3 trading is such a serious detriment to the artists themselves, why have only so few bands joined the fight against it? Surely Metallica, Dr Dre and a few other relative nobodys don't speak for the entire industry. The millions of bands that don't fight it speak volumes with their silence.
3) If this forces a shakeup in the recording industry where the execs stop screwing the artists and the consumers in order to line their own pockets, isn't this actually a good thing?

Personally I think Napster is great. I know that the record companies are losing lots of money but maybe instead of kicking people off of Napster they could figure out a way to profit from it.

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Travis
Eboarding.net

quote:I know that the record companies are losing lots of money but maybe instead of kicking people off of Napster they could figure out a way to profit from it.

They have, they want to shut it down.

Ravi

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Graduate Of 2000
Lyricsh.com
Find the lyrics to over 8,000 Songs.

[This message has been edited by Ravi Pachai (edited 06 June 2000).]

OK,
since I got flamed a lot ...
(Maybe just one thing to mention, I just lost a 34GB disk before making my first post ...)

quote:
1) When you're in college you are basically required to have a computer of some sort.

Well, maybe your country is different, but here we have university systems. There were quite a few students that didn't buy a computer at all.
And you don't need a 50GB harddisk or even a soundcard if you decide to buy your own.

quote:
2) MOST universities offer high speed networks and connections throughout classroms, libraries and dorms.

Yes, and you think they get that for free ?!
Every MB you download takes money from the university funds. And someone loses it.

quote:
I download my mp3's from work.
This means Phone costs free.

Yes, and who pays for it ?
The company.
It looks like you don't have shares of your own company.
And even if you haven't shares.
The cost gets deducted from your next pay rise.
In the end you pay.

quote:
60MB of space = 60 cents or less

Well, 20GB-Disk = 189$.
20GB/60MB = 340
189$ / 340 = $.55
(Ok, looks like I shifted the point last time ... sorry)

quote:
phone cost = 0 (you pay for the phone or broadband connection if you use it or not)

That might be true for you,
but here in europe you pay for usage.
(Around 5c per minute for 64Kbs,
or around 90$ per GB for 2Mbs)

And don't forget all the government/university money going into the backbones.
(Hey, stop downloading mp3s, you steal the bandwidth for my pr0n )

quote:
Now, show me a group making 8-10% of the cost of their CDs and I'll show you a group that has their own record label or a
big name megagroup with a sweetheart deal from their label. Most groups make pennies per CD and that only comes after
some arbitrary sales figure is reached. On the 1st X number of copies the group doesn't make a dime.

That's why i I said if they get a very good deal. We had 6.5%, but just because one of the guys dads owned the label.

quote:
After all that babble Anti, you still didnt give your thoughts on NAPSTER.

Yes, I must admit that I responded more to the "I save loads of money" part of the original question.

Napster in itself is ok,
also there are a few "better" approaches out there. (freenet, gnutella, to name some)

If you use it for free speech it's a good thing.
If you block censorship it's ok.
But if you use it do illegaly spread things then there is something wrong.

To cut it short:
Napster = OK
Usage of napster (today) = not OK
Downloading mp3 = to expensive (for me)
and the quality usually sux.

btw:
I have an empeg player in my car, so I _only_ listen to mp3s, but I produced them all myself, to keep the quality high.

I hope I explained my point.
And sorry for the slight miscalulation,
but that happens if you stare at the screen 65 hours per week.

ciao
Anti

[This message has been edited by anti (edited 07 June 2000).]

Copyright is about control. The issue with Napster isn't from the indie artists freely distributing their wares trying to attract a contract.

It's about ignorant (as in they don't know any better, or choose to ignore the law) users exchanging copyrighted works without permission, without paying royalties, et cetera.

That doesn't mean a lot to anyone who doesn't live off their creations, to those who have a nice steady paycheck that doesn't change based on how many hours you put in under 40 hours. But to those who actually CREATE rather than just put in the hours, this means A LOT.

I don't expect you to change your opinions of what you are doing, but you should realize that your personal ethics are not the issue. Copyright laws apply to the internet, and apply to people who use the internet.

You may think it's your freedom that is being silenced by the lawsuits against Napster, but really it isn't. It is the freedom of the creators that is being protected so they can continue to create the things you use and love.

Open source is often thrown up as an 'unselfish' non-copyrighted movement, but the fact is that everything that is created in a tangible form (therefore everything on the web) is copyrighted. Even open source stuff. But the people who offer up their work in the open source arena DO SO DELIBERATELY. They voluntarily put it in the public domain.

The music traded using Napster is not always offered voluntarily. That point of law is the real issue.

Just something to consider.

Suzanne

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Zero Cattle
Suzanne
Tables DeMystified

OK, heres my last say on this post.

MP3 trading is there whether artists or other people don't agree with it.

People (lots of them) WILL continue to use it despite unethical views.

The whole situation is so far down the line that the record companies couldn't stop mp3 trading no matter how many prosecutions.

One goes, another one comes.

Thats the way it is, and the way it will be

Personally, I just bought a 30 gig WD hard drive for $300. That $.01 per meg (that's ONE CENT). I have unlimited DSL internet. The wholesale price of bandwidth per gig is (going high here) $3.50. Therefore, to store ONE GIG of MP3s would cost total (my cost and PacBell's) is $13.50.

For just more then the cost of ONE CD, I can store roughly 1,000 minutes of music or almost 17 hours. Then I could burn it to a $.25 CDR (from the sale @ CompUSA) in 9 minutes and I'm still way in the green.

If I get a MP3 I like, I usually buy the CD to support the band - it's better if they get 2 cents then nothing at all, no?

Owen

Open source software is great. Let's say you find a bug in Linux that may be a threat yo your computer. The first thing I would do is log onto irc, ask about the problem and 90% of the time i'd get pointed to a URL with some sort of fix. And how is that possible? Because of the source code being available for download with the program.

I'm not saying that windows is "evil" because everything isn't open source, i'm just saying it's easier.

Ladies and Gentlemen...let's get ready to rumble!!!

Sorry...couldn't resist. Just ignore me.

Chase

Well Napster is officially down. I guess the courts filed an injunction on Napster, successfully closing it down until the hearings are completed. Oh well time to give them other programs some recognition.

VulKen
Just FYI
Keepin' It Realistic

Really ? I downloaded today from it. It wouldn't connect a couple of times but did in the end ? ?

Just to let you guys know as I was the main sort of person who really didn't give a to$$ whether I copy music illegally, I bought a C.D today !!

Yep, I got Eminem's Marshall Mathers CD. Its soooooooo wicked, really really good. One of the best I have heard. (not for the easily offended mind you!!!!!)Couldn't be bothered to download each song and burn and as I really like him wanted the original.

Happy ? (just kiddin)

keep Napstering people !!

Hey has anyone seen the mick taake of Metalicca floating around the web at the moment ? Its well funny. Got it the other day....

Yep, i'm having trouble connecting.

Nothing is wrong with Napster,

My friends and I have been successfully connecting everyday the last week or so.

~Vy~

Yeah, since I downloaded beta 6 I've had no problem with server errors.

New versions rock.

Actually, there were server problems, and it had nothing to do with the motion, as Vulken mentioned. Big time problems. It was all gone w/i a day though.

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Adam "fibroptikl" Lysne
adam@motion5.com
Questions?
fibroptikl
73218345