Oh my G-d!!!

Yeah, looks like they crashed one into the Pentagon also. Glad to hear that you're okay, bro.

Holy cow! This is really scary. Here's some articles & photos:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/46/

I can't even get into cnn.com right now - must be too many people trying to find out what happened.

George W. got out to the press pretty quick!

This is truly an awful thing that has happened here. Unbelievable! May God be with everyone. Keep us posted Jaiem. Glad you are ok.

I can't believe this is happening & it just seems to be getting worse! Boy I hope this stops soon.

My heart & thoughts go out to all of you over there xxx

Yes, even here in our quiet little office in South-Western Ontario people are shocked as word spreads through the office. I was just outside for a smoke with a co-worker and we were thinking about how here we are in this peaceful little world while these terrible things are happening.

Funny how these articles are saying "Tuesday Morning" - this is Today! This is NOW. Lets just hope this doesn't start something worse...

Seems like on the news everyone is blaming the Pallestiniens but they have just denied any involvement. I've also just been told by someone that some of our places over here in London are being evacuated as warnings have been issued here!!

Unbelievable, and very disturbing. Terrorism is so useless, all done in the name of religion, what a tragedy and a useless waste of life.

They're routing a lot of the international flights that were destined for the US to here (Canada).

I hope this doesn't get too much worse; I'm sure the US to going to respond soon, someone is going to get flattened.

That's the really scary part though, the retaliation!! Where will it stop?

True.

As bad as this is, imagine if there were biological or nuclear weapons on those planes.

It reminds me how fragile society is, it wouldn't take much to go over the edge...

It will be a very interesting few days... I think the nation will want to annihilate whoever did this. We'll just have to see how Bush's administration handles this.

Read this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/articles/president.html

Freaky.

Ooh, got a chill down my spine reading that!

Let's hope there isn't more to come!

I'm still gobsmacked ...

Wow, I have never seen this before.

Quote: An X10 camera pop-up ad today
We have suspended our service out of sympathy to the victims and families
of our national tragedy.
Our heartfelt prayers and sympathy go out to them.

Boy, I like them better already.

All of the four planes hijacked were in route to California... the terorists new that this ment full fuel tanks for a maximum damage.

I just saw the British Prime Minister on TV and was very touched by his support for our country and the sincerity of the message that he delivered. Thanks UK! I just pray that nothing more will happen and that it doesn't pour over into Canada or overseas. This is really scary.

It looks as if there is a portion of the WTC still standing. My heart goes out to the people who may still be trapped, victims and their families as well as emergency personnel who have many, many hours of searching and work to do. This will have a tremendous impact on them and the entire country...world for some time to come.

I heard the news some 5 hours ago and it still hasn't sunk in.....

I cannot believe just how atrocious this attck on your country is. Believ me when I say that people across the UK are not only disgusted by these animals but also stand up and be counted next to you in times like this...

I know revenge & retaliation don't count for much as it doesn't solve anything but this crime must not go unpunished...

My thoughts are with you...

It is Truely sad. The world trade center, which is the Icon of the usa. Stocks, Lawyers, Foreign Trade.. The Trade Center represent Americans. From Our Growth from the Colonies to Today.

The Pentagon has been crashed into, the army portion. The pentagon is literally the most powerful spot on the world.

Anyone that Attacks one country in the UN/NATO attacts all countries in The UN. Who ever or whatever did this will pay..

My heart goes out to the isrealites. Is i now know what their country goes threw every day.

Tomorrow will be a national mourning day in israel as a sign of solidarity.

I was supposed to fly home (Denver->Atlanta->Stuttgart) tomorrow. We rescheduled that flight from today, since I did't want to leave at 6am.

I'm angry, since all airports are closed.
I'm afraid, will flying ever be the same ?
I'm shocked, can this be true ?

BTW:
One of our main customers is Morgan Stanley, I was supposed to go there (after we ship by the end of the month) and help them.... you should see the goose bumps on my arms right now.

Anti, you are probably better off if you left today you could be in worse shape. It looks like the FAA closed the airports. The flights that were in the air were ordered to land at the closest airport. I know the local airport (Memphis) has thousands stranded here.

You are right flying will never be the same. It is a big enough hassle during holidays with all the increased security. I think I will drive to my in-laws this Christmas, about 16hrs.

Yeah, I know that I was lucky.

There is really no alternative to flying (from US to Europe).

Yeah, I guess that Stuttgart will be a long drive by car from Denver. Enjoy your stay in Denver.

Third building collapsed.

I guess like everywhere in the world its been on the news all day, its shocking, even on the other side of the world is hard to believe its happened.

I hope Pres. Bush sticks to his word and hunts these cowards down and cut their balls off - slowly.

I lost a cousin a few years ago, she was one of a few that were hacked to death in Rawanda, they caught the people who did this, and these were under ground gorillas, so these people responsible can and will be caught.

I'm sure I can speak for all of NZ when I say our hearts and thoughts are with all those invloved.

I have some close friends in NYC, one works in the WTC but they got out after the first attack and is ok, I still have another friend I have to make sure is ok, Just wanted to send my condolences to all those affected.

Like Busy, I know people in NY. I know that 1 of them is ok but another worked just down from the towers.

From Australia. Our hearts go out to all Americans today. This is a day of great shame for the world.

The world has changed.. again.

Remember this day, for on this day life in America changed forever, and not for better. We are at war, and the war may never end. The death toll is unimaginable, the worst (and almost the only) domestic war casualties in our history. But we’ve lost more than lives. We’ve lost what’s left of our innocence. Remember what life was like before today: freedom to travel, the right to privacy, a sense of ease and security in our homes and in our cities and towns.
http://msnbc.com

MIP1956
http://JohnMaloney.org

I'm on Broad Street, one block south of the Stock Exchange. Here's how my day went:

I got to the office all was fine. Early in the morning someone said he read on the net a plane had crashed into the Tower. We didn't hear it though. We figured it was an accident.

As we stood around discussing it and reading the news on the net we heard a **BOOOM**that shook the building. I thought it was a secondary explosion.

I went out side to the corner of Wall St. and Broadway to see the towers. I could only see tower #1.

The south side of the tower had a huge jagged gash about 45 degrees along the length of the building. Fire and smoke was along the East and North side. COuldn't see tower #2 but could see thick black smoke coming out of tower #2 and blowed SE.

Lots of offical papers and documents floating down. Also saw much items of clothing. I don't think it all came from the plane luggage either.

When I got back to the office I heard the Pentagon had been hit. Everyone was just standing around in shock. Then the Exec VP of Marketing came running in and yelled "Look out the windows!". We saw a cloud of thick dust rolling down the street. He yelled "We gotta get out of here!" So we evacuated down to the lobby (along with just about everyone else in the building).

I went out side to see if I could see the tower but with all the dust couldn't see more than a block or so.

The dust started to clear so I was going to make a break for it along with some co-workers to head North away from the dust. We went outside, got about 1/2 a block when ***BOOM*** something shook the ground. I could see the sillouette of a thick black cloud rolling down the street towards us.

I yelled for everyone to get back in the building and we made it back just in time as the debris cloud swept down the street. That was the cloud from the collapse of the first tower. After the second tower also collapsed it took a good 45 minutes or so for the air to clear somewhat to be able to go outside again.

I decided to walk East then North to get away from the dust. I was concerned about some contamination from the dust (who knows what the terrorists had put on the plane).

As I walked East the dust was coming down like snow. COuld hardly see. Lots of papers littered the street and more items of clothing. A couple of blocks away I ran into an EMT who was handing out breathing masks. It helped.

By the time I reached the Brooklybn bridge I was out of the dust cloud. Going by the court house and federal buildings there were armed riot police with shot guns and armor.

I finally made it up to 34th street where cops were ordering cars going through the tunnel (Queens Mid-Town Tunnel) to load up with passengers. I hoped on a truck to Queens. TO make the story a bit shorter. I was dropped off along Queens Blvd and walked a couple of miles to my mother's house in Jackson Heights. Staying the night here then going out to LI tomorrow.

It's been a horrific day to say the least.

Everyone was just standing around at my campus watching CNN. It was very bizarre. Last time I can remember seeing that many people in the commons area was during Columbine.

As a police recruit I've been monitoring our law enforcement all day. Not much action but everyone is on a heightened alert status. And some of my fellow SAR members have already been mobilized to New York. Our K9 search teams left hours after it happened.

I really feel for all of the public safety workers in New York and DC. Can you imagine trying to handle that type of incident? Triage is a nightmare for any EMS worker.

Glad you made it out safely Jaiem. Been thinking about what you might be going through all day.

I left my house around 6pm to go to the grocery store. My car was on empty so I went to the service station just down the road and there were about 50 cars at the station that usually only has 1-3 cars there at any given time. They were saying that prices were going from 1.38/gallon to $4.00/gallon tomorrow and have already gone up in some places as much as $5.00. It took me about 2 hours to get gas.

DM

Yeah glad you made it out safely Jaiem. It seems weird that as I write this it is morning here and obviously all the news stations are talking about it, whilst there it is still the wee hours and dark.

To us here it is almost like we've watched a film which seemed very real but then you sleep, wake up and now think did that really happen? I really feel for all of you over there.

My best friends brother is actually in NY for his honeymoon and no one here has heard from him (not that we think he was actually anywhere near where it all happened) or his daughter who was due to fly back home today.

Sitting here now I feel a sense of loss even though I don't actually know anyone who was injured/killed I feel like such a part of me has changed just because this has happened and the world has changed as a result. Not being able to do anything about it is also hard and as life here continues as normal (well as normal as it can with this on everyone's minds) I can't help but seriously wonder & worry about what is coming next.

I just don't know what to say. Nobody's working anymore...everybody is checking CNN.com and related newssites the whole day...

Here in the Netherlands (I'm in The Hague) people lay flowers near the American Ambassy.

Still see the surreal pics in my head from people falling down, still can't believe it...

This is really getting to me. You know how you manage to keep a stiff upper lip during one terrifying event after another, and then the next one comes and brings out all the emotions you kept bottled up before? Well that's how I feel now.

Although I have heard from all family and freinds in NY, and they are all ok, it really spooks me that so many kids are still waiting to hear from their parents. So many people are at this very moment trapped deep under tons of rubble suffering terribly as they gasp for every breath.

My heart goes out to all the victims, not just those who are suffering directly. But also to all of you who are experiencing the fear of evil for the first time. And it really saddens me that an entire society is now loosing its relatively carefree lifestyle. Everybody is going to have to start taking all sorts of safety precautions like having your backpack checked by a security guard every time you go into a shopping mall.

I really hope that the civilized world stands up together against murderers who target civilians and condem murder only when they are afraid that if they don't they might get killed themselves.

Is this going to happen? Don't hold your breath.

In the meantime lets all protest against terror by doing exactly what the enemy wants to stop us from doing. Lets all keep on breathing, keep on living, keep on enjoying our work (I would say "job" if I had one...) our families and all the other good things in life.

Andy

We just started getting "unconfirmed" reports stating that Bin Laden has been manufacturing small nuclear weapons. Has anyone else seen this?

This thing is getting out of control. We had youths partying in the streets of sydney yesterday when they heard the news. Not many, but it is so frightening.

You get the feeling that this isn;t then end. That in some terrible way this is only going to get worse.

Haven't seen that reported but he definitely seems to be Prime Suspect even though he has denied involvement. I suppose a lot is going to depend on what those they have already arrested say. It looks pretty obvious that it was a middle east attack from the evidence found in that car (the flight manuals & training video) but how they are going to prove exactly who/which group is ultimately responsible I don't know. I think that's the scarey part - they blame someone & attack, they still deny it & relatiate then you have full scale war!

I heard this stuff last night, so it may be outdated already. 8[

It is beleived that 50 people were involved.
40 persons have been taken into custody, from what I heard, they are not under arrest yet.

The nationality varies in the group.

FBI is tracing leads that suggest that the terorists took flight training in the US. Possibly in Florida.

My prayers are with everyone.

I know these horrific evil and inhumane acts of terror will change the world of tomorrow. Below I would like to share my experience. Undoubtedly the people who witnessed Tuesdays act of terror in person will be scarred for life and will need counseling.

Tuesday morning I woke up early (7:00am) to go grocery shopping. I stumbled out of bed and squinted peering through the small window in my front door. I was unusually disturbed by the weird yellow glow of the sky. It was almost like I was looking through some psychedelic yellow sunglasses. For some reason I felt an evil presence was upon the world. I shook it off and went shopping.

When I got back from the food store the phone rang. It was my mother. "Quickly turn on the T.V. a plane has crashed into the New York World Trade Center”. I immediately turned on the T.V. and was shocked to see one of the towers had a large gapping hole in it and flames and smoke were poring out of it. At first I thought it was a small plane that somehow freakishly and accidentally crashed into the tower. I then began to wonder if this had been a terrorist act. My suspicion was quickly confirmed when I noticed a second plane heading toward the second tower. It looked like a large 737. Seconds later it plowed into the second tower. I just sat there with my jaw hanging in disbelief. Was I still asleep and having an unreal nightmare? Unfortunately I was wide-awake and this was an unreal nightmare. I immediately started praying for the souls of the already dead and those who were at that moment in time were undoubtedly dying a horrific death before the eyes of the world.

I thought it was over. It wasn't. News came in that the Pentagon was on fire. My God will this ever end? It seemed as though the culprits were attacking not only The United States of America but also the whole world. Who was next what was next. London? Then the news came in that the planes had been high jacked which just seemed to add to the horror of the whole scenario that was being played out in front of the world. Reports quickly surfaced which stated that another plane had been highjacked and was heading for Washington D.C. and that the US may be forced to shoot it down. I've seen lots of terrorist movies which killed lots of people but no movie director could have never dreamt of making a movie that allowed terrorist to high jack four commercial jets, crash two of them into the world trade towers collapsing both towers, crash another into the Pentagon and drill one of the high jacked plane into a corn field near Pennsylvania. Within hours thousands of innocent people (humans) lost their life in a horrific cowardly and sickly act of evil.

Everyone take care and God bless,
Gavin

Anybody ever read Tom Clancy's "Sum of all Fears"? It says it all.

It wouldn't be hard to make a nuke. Doesn't have to be anything really sophisticated. A relatively "primative" Hiroshima-class A-bomb would devistate any city in the world. Infact, you don't even have to hit the city directly. A nuclear explosion a few mile away would blanket an area with poisonous fall-out, especially if the wind was in the right direction.

Pretty freaky stuff.

On the flip side of that nuclear coin, you have fall out. And fall out doesn't discriminate between the guilty and the innocent. Jet screams and whatnot can send radio active particles quite a distance.

Read it and tell me it's not freeky.

This is strange..................

Subject: Is the US attack related to Nostradamus' prediction?

This is a quake from one of his predictions:

"In the year of the new century and nine months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror...
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city..."

Interpretation:

2001 is the first year of the new century and this is the 9th month.
New York is located at the 41st degree Latitude. (miss by 4 but hey give
the guy a fair go...it's close enough)
He also said that this will be the third World War and it would be bigger than the last two wars.

"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb,
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning."
"on the 11th day of the 19 month that...two metal birds would crash into two tall statues...in the new city... and the world will end soon after"
- Nostradamus 1654'

Now look at this: It's very strange....

The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11
September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11
After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.
119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11
Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11
The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11

But wait ......... There's More.......

State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union
New York City - 11 Letters
Afghanistan - 11 Letters
The Pentagon - 11 Letters
Ramzi Yousef - 11 Letters (convicted or orchestrating the attack on the WTC in 1993)
Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11
Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11

Webmistress - 11 characters

Hey! Are you involved?

OMG! I hope not but I am 29 - 2+9=11 :eek:

Two things about the Nostradamus stuff - first of all, his "predictions" have been used to prove just about anything. At one time the two brothers line was thought to refer to the assassination of the Kenendys. Secondly, I've heard on several occasions that what has been floating around the internet is not an accurate quote from Nostradamus - specifically the line about two metal birds.

Quote: "on the 11th day of the 19 month that...two metal birds would crash into two tall statues...in the new city... and the world will end soon after"

This part especially, I don't think is what he actually said. I've seen the posted on several other boards and this part is always different. I've also heard that all this stuff that is floating around is actually lines from different parts of his writing patched together.

Here is one of the web site on Nostradamus and his writings. They are saying that it is a hoax.
http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html

Nostradamus Hoax

You can read all about it at:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa091101b.htm

This is from today's Washington Post:

A Predictable 'Prediction'

The message has spread from in-box to in-box, through bars and over dinner tables: Nostradamus predicted Tuesday's terror more than 500 years ago.

"In the year of the new century and nine months, from the sky will come a great King of Terror -- In the city of York there will be a great collapse; two twin brothers
torn apart by chaos while the fortress falls; the great leader will succumb; third big war will begin when the big city is burning."

Nostradamus biographer -- and hoax-buster -- James Randi scoffed.

"This happens every time there's a major disaster," Randi said, citing the Challenger explosion and President Kennedy's assassination. The prophecy "never shows
up in French, it always shows up in English for some reason. This quatrain just never existed. I spent a considerable amount of time in France looking up every single word the man wrote."

Nostradamus, who lived from 1503 to 1566, was a physician and astrologer whose work most commonly appears in 12 "centuries" of 100 quatrains each.

According to Randi, nothing Nostradamus predicted ever came true, and many prophecies that seem accurate were made up after his death.

Why has Randi devoted so much energy to writing about these false prophecies?

"I tried to find out why people believed he was a prophet when he failed grandly. They continue to believe because they like it to be true and they need it to be true,"
he said.

This is what I think:

These people are using an Internet marketing trick to make thousands. It goes like this:

They have a web site about Nostradamus. On this web site they give away some info and always at the end there is a Nostradamus book to buy to find out more on this subject. Of course if you bulk email thousand and thousands of people with a prediction related to the terrorist attack (which is possibly made up anyway) they will flock to your web site and most will buy your book. This terrorist attack is a hot topic and affects just about everyone. No doubt people would want to find out more and would be willing to buy a book predicting the future.

The funny thing is that most of these web sites are hosted on free servers with limited bandwidth and when these thousands of people visit these sites they quickly use up the free bandwidth. Their site automatically shuts down and their book sales stop.

A real prediction:

Could we be in the time of the 3rd seal? Revelations 6:5 (The Holy Bible)

It reads:
"When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! It's rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

Could the black horse represent death and mourning?

Could the scales represent liberty and justice? Or and maybe the U.S.A.?

And does the last section about wheat for a day's wages etc. which represents trading be linked to the World Trade Center?

Read about the 4th seal these events could be coming if not soon some time in the future.

Gavin

Nostradamus has a terrible batting average. The Bible, on the other hand, has a perfect batting average.

The book of Mark, chapter 13 reads: (King James Version)

Quote:
5) And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
7) And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginings of sorrows.

Matthew chapter 24 reads similar.

2 Timothy 3:1 reads: (King James Version) (Paul speaking)

Quote:
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

If you read on in 2 Timothy chapter 3, it gives a description of the life style of people in the last days.

Interesting.

>>The Bible, on the other hand, has a perfect batting average.<<

This is true. It's amazing that all the stories and accounts which come from hundreds of eyewitnesses throughout the Bible never contradict each other.

Just take the accounts of Jesus’ last days, which were recorded by many eyewitnesses. Of all the many eyewitnesses accounts not one of them ever contradicted the other.

Gavin

See, now you're doing the same thing. You're taking some "predictions" written thousands of years ago and trying to say that they apply now. It's almost the same thing as the Nostradamus hoax. The best we can do is have faith in whatever we believe, and trust in whichever god we believe.

If you were to study the writtings of Nostradamus, you'd find that he is VERY bad a predicting anything.

The bible was written by over 40 different authors over a 1,500 year span. These authors were from every walk of life, from kings to peasants. It was written on three continents, Asia, Africa and Europe. It was written in a number of different places: In the wilderness, in a dungeon, on a hillside, in a palace, in prison, and while traveling on the road. It was written at different times: During war and during peace. In times of great joy and in times of great sorrow and despair. It was written in three different languages, Hebrew, Greek and some Aramaic. Yet there is no contadiction in the Bible, and the predictions in the Bible are perfectly accurate. Only divine inspiration can accompish that.

2 Timothy 3:16 reads:

Quote:
16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in reighteousness:

Very well said.

You have been reading.

The truth is the truth. Period.

Gavin

Hmmmm.... depends on what you believe. There are many religions in this world with many different beliefs. Only a few are based on the Bible. Is any one of these religions more "right" than another? Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you believe. All of this is a matter of belief not "truth".

I hate to change the subject here but read below at what I received via e mail this AM from our State Emergency Medical Services Division. Kinda makes me want to get another job.
______________
URGENT NOTICE OR REQUEST

FBI, Mobile, AL Division has received an urgent message from FBIHQ regarding a valid threat concerning terrorist's plans to steal Fire Department and/or EMS vehicles.

Vehicles are to be turned into vehicle bombs. Targets are
military installations across the country.

All recipients are requested to notify local Fire Departments, EMS Departments and Military installations as soon as possible.
_____________

DM

Disaster-master stick in there.

If these terrorists are going to use this method then you are the US only front line defence. You should remain vigilant and report those who look suspicious.

I was thinking about how they might attack next the other day. They probably have people in manufacturing plants like Coca Cola. Imagine if they were to poison large supplies of Coca Cola. Millions of people drink this soda daily. There is talk about them poisoning the tap water. But have they discussed poisoning other things. If they were to do this all the food stores in the US would have to be shut down. Even here in the Bahamas. We get just about everything from the US.

Gavin

Gavin has a good point. I was down there when it happened and had to walk out of lower Manhattan. Lots of people giving out free water, soda, food etc. Even now lots of free food coming into "ground zero" to help the rescuers. It would be pretty ugly if someone slipped something into the food.

However, fortunately (if that is a good use of the word in the case) while terrorists wants terror they also strike at large symbolic targets like the WTC towers, Pentagon, White House, financial and government centers etc etc. Very little symbolism in poisoning some firemen. I wouldn't put it past some nut to try it but that would be a side event IMO, not part of the overall terrorist plot.

What about if they were to poison the whole country? That's a real threat I feel. They have cells everywhere working at places like manufacturing plants. Some arsenic could be easily slipped into food and drinks. We saw this done before when some lunatic slipped arsenic into...was it Bayer? I think it was.

Gavin

A lot has been said about the poison issue. Wouldn't bin laden and his mates want a more graphical, quick and exacting attack? The WTC and Pentagon were very high profile targets that they wanted not just to damage but destroy (probably the white house when it comes to the pentagon) and in view of everyone.

I would be more worried with regards to a biological or nuclear weapon. This would be small yield but the instructions are on the net for crying out loud.

It sounds good to be worried about poisoning food. And it is a real concern.

But the reality is that food production in the U.S. is very wide spread and diverse. Even a coordinated effort would be little more than like cases of product tampering that have happened before. Yes unfortunately a few people would get sick, maybe worse. But by the time it is discovered the products will be identified and pulled from the shelves and warnings flashed all over the news.

OTOH, as a pure terror/paranoia tactic it would be awful.

It's been reported that all crop dusting planes are banned from any main places, apparntly they had a tipoff they were going to spread posion via the planes

could be hoax, could be real.

people are even stealing the flags people are flying for the cause, getting hard to trust anyone these days.

*make the hate stop*

I've had it with reality, I want a fairy godmother.

Yea, I heard about the dusters too.

There have been many fictional books and stories written about how someone might spread a germ or chemical. Basically, where there's a will there will be away.

Remember the TV mini-seriers V? They used hot-air balloons to spread the toxin that killed the aliens.

V used to be my favourite program of the time then!! Ooooh, that brings back memories!

The movie/mini-series was good. The regular series they tried to make was very poor.

Very "War of the Worlds"-ish. But for it's day, it was a great mini-series!

Another TV program we both like watching!!

My point was that you don't need a hi-tech or even semi-hi-tech mechanism to release a poison. And, as they said on the show, if it's biologic then the contamination grows exponentially.

I kept thinking (rather, trying not to think!) about that was I tried to walk through the dust cloud last Tuesday.

I think the threats could just be a scare tactic, I mean if they wanted to wide spread disaster why didnt they make a nuclear power plant the targets?

Be postive, keep your chins up and think of happy thoughts.
I know this is easier said than done but if all we do is is worry then they have beaten us.

Have you seen a nuclear power plant?
The one (somewhat) near where I live is built with massive walls of reinforced concrete. I've hear of some people speculate that it could withstand a passenger jet flying into it.

About the nuclear reactor though, surely a sufficient jolt like when a jet plane were to crash into it cause enough problems? My expertise in nuclear reactors goes as far as watching the movie "the china syndrome" so I wouldn't know. Anyway, not to put light on that but the US has always said they would react in kind to the use of weapons of mass destruction. Surely no-one would be that stupid as to attempt that?

Quote: editors note:

two weeks ago we all would have said who is stupid enough to crash 4 planes into buildings...

We just watched Bush's speech to Congress now. I have to say that if the resolve of that chamber is anything like that of the soldiers then whoever did this better look out.

BUSY,
you are a new zealander so what I want to know is this, has new zealand done anything about it's ANZUS treaty? Australia has invoked it. I haven't heard anything about NZ though....

Are you guys still angry about us whooping your butts in the rugby?

Quote: Originally posted by detox
About the nuclear reactor though, surely a sufficient jolt like when a jet plane were to crash into it cause enough problems? My expertise in nuclear reactors goes as far as watching the movie "the china syndrome" so I wouldn't know. Anyway, not to put light on that but the US has always said they would react in kind to the use of weapons of mass destruction. Surely no-one would be that stupid as to attempt that?

I'm sure that it would damage the structure, but I doubt there would be any fallout. I highly doubt there would be a large explosion... I don't think that nuclear power plants use weapons grade material.

That's one of the biggest misconceptions about nuclear power. You can not have a nuclear explosion from a nuclear power plant! (The explosion at Chernobyl was a steam explosion, not a nuke.)

However, that doesn't matter too much as even with a conventional expolsion much nuclear (radioactive) matertial would be shot into the atmosphere and you'd get fall out for hundreds if not thousands of square miles.

Personally, I doubt a rector containment building could withstand the full force of a commercial jet crashing into it.

Quote: Personally, I doubt a rector containment building could withstand the full force of a commercial jet crashing into it.

that was exactly what I was thinking...

I thought that reactors as with any machinery utilises junctions, gauges, valves etc. Certainly in any machinery a sufficient jolt can result in leakage. I am not a nuclear nut or anything, but the core doesn't exactly spit out good vibes does it?!

What is the feeling in the street in America today? Are people pissed off? wanting a big strike? You see the news but...

My thoughs:

The nuke plant in San Ononfre, CA has 2 cement buildings in the shape of domes. Not a square building with sides you can punch through. Just 2 half spheres sitting on the ground. And this is in southern California. We have earthquakes. So building codes require buildings to be able to withstand earthquakes. So this building wont have thin or uninforced walls. Our freeway overpasses have massive amounts of rebar. So I'm assuming the nuke plant has the same kind of structural inforcement if not more so.

Quote: What is the feeling in the street in America today? Are people pissed off? wanting a big strike? You see the news but...

Here are my feelings from Alabama, USA and what a majority of my friends, family are saying.

First we are shocked that such a terrible thing has happened to so many innocent people. Next there is fear that it may happen again and sadness that so many of our fellow citizens are in pain for the loss of their loved ones. Even those who haven't lost a loved one are broken because of the nature and extent of what happened. Then pride steps in because we, as a nation, have seemed to grow very strong since this bad thing has happened. Most everyone has put aside their differences that we have had in the U.S. such as racism and other minor little things that used to be a big deal. We have become one. Yes, we are pissed but I don't think most want war. But, if that is what it takes we will most definately stand behind our president and other leaders in doing what it takes to stop this and prevent it from happening to us or others. I don't really think that just going in to Afghanistan and bombing the crap out of the whole country is the answer because so many of them are victims too. I would say that the biggest thing with people on the street right now is uncertainty. Not war, war, war. We are a peace-loving people but like I saw on the news.....A sleeping giant has been awakened.

I just hope that nations all over the world will join in on this fight against terriorism because if it happened here it can and will happen anywhere.

[url="http://www.therecord.com/news/special/day_of_terror/news_special_dot_01092192643.html
"]Nuclear facilities put on high alert[/url] From the Kitchener-Waterloo Record (my local paper)

Everything is on high-alert this weekend. Specifically Pro and College Football games and ,of course, Airports, power plants (not just nuclear) and about everything else.

What was the movie with Bruce Willis as an Army officerr and Denzel Washington as an NYC cop? The one about terrorists attacking NY?

It made a good point, same point I think the President has been trying to make - not to let our own concerns about protection from terrorists destroy the very way of freedom American represents.

Detox wrote ....

Quote: Are you guys still angry about us whooping your butts in the rugby?

I had to laugh at that

As for the ANZUS treaty thing am I unsure what has ben put in place, apart from the PM saying we would be willing and able to take in casulites, not much has been said, we are offering material items but as you know our defense force consists of a few inflatable rafts and kites. A large percentage of our troops are still overseas with the UN peace thingy and are contracted there for a few more years so am not sure if they will be pulled out or what will happen.

All we have on the tv and in the paper is the USA attacks and the Air NZ / Ansett problem.

The reason I made the nuclear power station comment was I had just finished watching that movie (forgot what it was called) about the y2k bug affecting the powerplants and the rods werent getting any water .... I admit I know nothing about the makings or running of a power plant, our government wont even allow nuclear powered ships into our waters. I have seen the ones in England, look very similar to the ones on the simpsons tv programme lol.

I think Jaiem is on the right cord, if we/you allow every idea to worry you then we/your doomed, dont dismiss it al together but live your lives as if it wont happen.

"Worry is like a rocking chair--it gives you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere."
---Dorothy Galyean

Quote: Originally posted by Jaiem
What was the movie with Bruce Willis as an Army officerr and Denzel Washington as an NYC cop? The one about terrorists attacking NY?

It made a good point, same point I think the President has been trying to make - not to let our own concerns about protection from terrorists destroy the very way of freedom American represents.

The Siege.. good movie.

6 months to the day today the world was changed....

6 months on and its still ongoing with Bush & Blair threatening to go into Iraq....

I honestly believe in what they are trying to achieve but where does it end?

And still it goes on!