Elections - What are your thoughts?

I think that we should just name Bush president and go on with our merry little lives. Yar! Avast!

How long can it take to count up some votes from florida?
Hmm, 'Floridians' 1,2,3.. opps need to start over. ; )

Hmm, hopefully we can find out who the pres is by monday.

They said they might wait for the overseas ballots to come in. Which could take 10 more days. I hope this gets over soon, it is starting to get annoying. What if it took months?

Yeah, we're going to be sitting around for a while now... I guess this is the closest election in history, and with all the problems in Florida as well as the overseas/absentee ballots coming in- it could take a few weeks.

As if this weren't frustrating enough.... The Gore campaign looks as if they'll take this to court.

You know that in 1996 a heck of a lot 'Floridians' voted for both presidents? They had the same layout last election and no one complained then...

This whole thing is giving me a headache!

I'm not American, but I think something as important as who your next president is can take as long as it needs in order for it to be a fair election.

Ravi

Ravi-

I agree that we (Americans) should take time to make this as fair as possible. BUT it's hard when both parties have been doing shady things.

One thing that is really upsetting me is how far the Gore campaign is willing to stretch this out. You guys know that they're planning on having a manual count of the votes? (as if the computers counting these things weren't acurate enough... lol)

*sigh* Knowing Gore, this will drag on until December. Clinton Scandal re-lived.

Parker, in response to your question "what if it takes months?" [I know it was rtheorical, but whatever] here's the answer:

These guys have until December... 16th, I think it is, to put in their complaints, because in December the Electoral College -has- to meet.

What if they have not finished counting on Dec 16?
Re-elections? Please no! I find it already hard not to laugh.

Then they take whoever's ahead and give him the votes.

ahead in the total amount of votes (Gore) or ahead in the wack system they handle now (Bush)?

Ahead in the recount. Like if they had to stop right now, [I think, I don't know the curret count] then Bush'd win by [the last time I checked] 225 votes.

Personally, I think that they seriously messed up. With over 10 million voters in Florida there is a difference of a couple hundred ? I don't know if anyone here is into Statistics but in every case there is always a degree of uncertaintity, and I'm positive that noone(including a computer) would be able to recount (or count) 6 million votes accurately. It wasn't done the first time, why would it be done the second time ?

But then if you call a re-election (which I doubt because the Govenor has to do that, and the Govenor is Jeb Bush, George Bush's Brother) who's to stop the voters who didnt come out the first time from coming out again ?

Ah Well, I hope Gore wins

Ravi

[Edited by Ravi Pachai on Nov. 10, 2000 at 12:49 PM]

I'm for Gore too. Never really liked Bush.

Really? Interesting. I really haven't been following it all (seeing as how I'm not American) but I did catch something on PBS the other night. It could have been their political bias, but it seemed to me like Gore was talking out of his ass the whole time - he reminded me of a TV preacher.

Anyone want to give me a brief summary of Gore vs. Bush?

no matter who wins their gonna be a weak president and only survive one term, imho.

I like Bush.

Anyway, another thing to take into consideration is this: if Gore keeps dragging this out and whining about losing, then his political career is pretty much over. No one wants a whiner as President. BUT, if he just conceeded that he lost Florida and the elections, then he would probably have a chance of winning four years from now. So what he's doing right now is pretty stupid on his part.

Quote: Originally posted by Ravi Pachai
Personally, I think that they seriously messed up. With over 10 million voters in Florida there is a difference of a couple hundred ? I don't know if anyone here is into Statistics but in every case there is always a degree of uncertaintity, and I'm positive that noone(including a computer) would be able to recount (or count) 6 million votes accurately. It wasn't done the first time, why would it be done the second time ?

But then if you call a re-election (which I doubt because the Govenor has to do that, and the Govenor is Jeb Bush, George Bush's Brother) who's to stop the voters who didnt come out the first time from coming out again ?

Ah Well, I hope Gore wins

Ravi

[Edited by Ravi Pachai on Nov. 10, 2000 at 12:49 PM]

Ravi, if they did do a recount, it would only be eligible to those who voted in the first election. Of course, people would change their votes (not vote for Nader or Bucannan), but I don't think this would be a great factor anyway, as many people say they were "tricked" into voting for Bucannan instead of Gore. Either way, whoever becomes president is going to have a very hard time, because the house is divided pretty much 50/50... so we won't see any changes that both republicans AND democrats don't want in place.

Brian

No offense to anyone in FL but that state has a reputation for a high degree of voter "uncertainty". Normally it all comes out even in the end. It's just that with such a close count that "uncertainty" is now a factor.

CNN had a scenario where it ends up Congress and the Senate pick the Pres and VP. Could even end up Bush as Pres and Leiberman as VP!

And we thought our political system (Israel) was divided in half...

This does seem to be going on for ages and ages now. I say, just leave Clinton as president and put an end to it all

Take Hillary if you think Bill's no good

I say screw 'em all [hey.. am I allowed to say screw with the moderator tag..?] and make a potted plant President. Make a small feild mouse VP, and we're set. The potted plant and mouse would be a lot easier on the eyes than any of these schmucks. But if I have to choose... GO BUSH!

i think bush will end up getting the new white house in dc, hehe.

There's only one sure way of resolving it - Celebrity Death Match cage!

If this whole thing isn't decided by December 18th then it goes to the house of representatives.

Jan 3rd the NEW house of representatives is sworn in and they will vote on who becomes president. If (and that's a big if) they can't come up with a majority then on Jan 20th (inauguration day) the speaker of the house becomes president.

(This is under rules of succession to the presidency)

That's what I know!

Brooke

Jaiem-
Now there a good idea...

first count... Bush won
second count... Bush won
third count... deadline hit, Bush is ahead (but they may take counts turned in late)

give it up.. it's time this was all over

They're going to recount and recount and recount again forever until they find a way for Gore to win, even if it's just a handfull of votes!

OTOH, if it were Gore ahead by 300 or so and Bush challenged for a recount you'd hear the media calling Bush a spoiled rich kid and a sore looser.

The only good thing that can come of this is if Gore finally does win by some tiny margin I dare him to say in his acceptance speach "The people have spoken!" or "The people have sent a message!" (i.e. try to show it as a mandate). He probably will though....

looks like you got a new president! Good Luck Bush even though I wanted Gore .

Ravi

Ravi - Just as well. Gore can now go on to his real calling: saving the environment and finishing devinity school.

Algoraphobic- The rational fear of whiny politicians.

I dont understand why anyone would put him down for "whining" because all he wanted was a fair recount. If Bush was so confident that he won Florida why wouldn't he let them do the recount? Why did he go and appeal everytime? He's more a whiner then Gore, he should have just let them recount. What was he worried about ? Loosing? Why would he be worried about that when he was so confident that he won?

Can we say Sore Loose?

Ravi

Where is democracy when not all votes count?

Democracy in this case -assumes- that the person filling out the voting card has more than a.. well.. fetal baby's mind. My little nephew, when he was only two, could figure out which little blocks were supposed to go in which holes. It's not that hard to follow the arrow that is printed on the card to push in a little circle. Notice how the Bush camp isn't complaining that they may have lost some votes? It's because they're not whiny foo's.

don't worry gore will win in 2004 and the democrats will take one or both houses of congress back in 2002 and/or 2004.

Gore won't win. Nobody can trust 'dat foo'!

Hilary will run in 2004. She already put her upstate NY house up for sale.

And I really believed her when she said she's been a New Yawker all her life.

THERE's a winner.

I never said Bush wasn't a whiner. It just isn't a play on agoraphobic to say Bushaphobic. I was just trying to be a smart-donkey.

That said, the ballets were counted. According to the Supreme Court what was being called a recount did not satisfy the minimum requirements for non-arbitrary treatment of voters necessary to secure their fundemental rights. (pg 7 of the Per Curiam decision)

From what I read and saw on TV Bush only appealed decisions that violated established Florida State Law. If you read the first couple of pages from the US Supreme Court decision you will see that the facts presented and not disputed by either side show that indeed recounting was done according to law. Both an automatic recount, and a second manual recount under protest by Gore.

Because the Florida Supreme Court did not set a state wide standard the recounting was determined to be unconstitutional.

Also a point to be made concerning the popular vote count that Gore thinks he won. All of the vote tabulations that I have seen for the most part exclude absentee ballots. Most states do no count absentee ballots if the number of outstanding ballots could not change the outcome of the election. This is determined by adding the total number of absentee ballots to the currently projected loser and seeing if that number puts him/her within a contestable margin from the projected winner. My thought is that if all absentee ballots were counted Gore's popular lead would deminish if not disappear altogether.

Sorry for my rambling, I tend to get passionate when people make statements that have little or no basis in fact. I sincerly doubt that more that one percent of Americans who are commenting on the election have taken the time to read the decisions put out by any of the courts. To bad we have come to depend on information put out by the media instead of reading and researching the information ourselves.

By the way, I am one of the 0.37% of the population who voted for Harry Browne. That makes me one of 382,869 people.

You know what? In 2004, we should all vote for the American Socialist Party, just to see what would happen.

I think we should let Florida handle the next presidential ellection.

OTOH, now that he has nothing to do imagine what he could invent. Afterall, if he could invent the internet as a Senator, with all his newly found free time just imagine what new he can develop!

I heard that Gore sent 70 volunteers from Tenesee to help speed up the counting.

How do Gorians count? Simple...
1 for Bush; 1 for Gore. 2 for Bush; 1, 2 for Gore. 3 for Bush...

But seriously, did you notice that everytime the votes were recounted in the democratic districts, that the total votes went up? Where'd all the extra ballots come from, absentee? and that many, that late?

And while people were counting ballots in the democratic districts, chads were accumulating on the floor. Which candidate did those chads fall for?

IMHO, the most accurate count of the votes is the one done on Nov 7. And I think Bush did the right thing by stopping the recounts. The longer this goes on, the greater the margin of error.

boy, i can just imagine the bush election celebration. must have be enough alcohol and cocaine there for everyone. i'm sure bunches drove off drunk too (bush & cheney's dui's), hehe.

there was no celebration, heard that on the news

How will Bush react when, in a few weeks, independents have recounted all the votes and the result will be in Gore's advantage?

They can count all they want. At this point I don't think anyone is overseeing what happens to the ballots any more (certainly not like before anyway) so any result will even more suspect.