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The Webmistress's picture

She has: 5,587 posts

Joined: Feb 2001

I have just read this on Silicon.com and was wondering what everyone feels about the issue of Cookies and the possible ban on them by EU countries??

Quote: Opening the lid on the cookie debate - The EU: tough on cookies, tough on the causes of cookies - and completely wrong...

Cookies: love 'em or hate 'em? Do they make the web a better place for you to be, or do they infringe your privacy?

That debate is at the heart of recent discussions within the EU, and the weight of opinion among the eurocrats has come down firmly on the side of the privacy advocates.

Web users frequently do not know when cookies are installed on their machine, and they are not told to what purpose the data they generate will be put - hence the EU proposal to ban companies from using them unless "the explicit, well-informed and freely given consent of the user concerned has been obtained" (as the proposal puts it).

For once, that sounds like the lawmakers have come to a reasonable conclusion. So why have there been the usual cat calls of complaint from various parts of the industry?

The Internet Advertising Bureau (IAB) for one claims this will cost UK business £11bn - perhaps a spurious figure, but its members clearly think there's a big problem here.

And indeed there is - and it's in the very definition of what constitutes "explicit, well-informed and freely given consent".

silicon.com currently asks its users if they want to download a cookie onto their machine, but we dont say precisely what we'll do with the data. Our users (being, on the whole, technically literate) know why we offer that service (it's a simple matter of making logging in easier) but we dont explicitly state that. Have we done enough according to the above definition?

Probably, but we don't know for sure. There are other issues: We use a third party to serve our banner ads; if someone clicks on one, and ends up at a destination which installs a cookie without the user's consent, would we be liable for contravening the legislation? Or is it the company which served the ad? Or the company which bought it? When and where must that consent be asked for?

There are answers to these questions of course, but it might help give some idea of the reasonably complex implications of this simple change to the law - and goes some way to explaining the extra costs involved.

And let's not forget, cookies can be a good thing for web users. If your average, non-technical punter went to Amazon.com and suddenly received a warning that a cookie was about to be downloaded, they may well refuse it (having read horror stories of viruses and suchlike) - but then they'd have real difficulty using Amazon's shopping basket. They'd not benefit from any special, tailored offers the next time they logged on.

A quick glance at the machine on which this article is being written shows that nearly 50 cookies have been downloaded this month alone. Would a user really want to be bothered with some kind of warning every time this happens? Maybe, but not definitely.

It's always difficult to balance the needs of business against the desire to protect individuals' privacy. But it must be stated that cookies really aren't used in a 'Big Brother' way - it's simply not technically possible to capture as much information as some people claim. This proposal also places too much onus on website owners and in particular the dot-coms, many of whom could well do without the extra expense of conforming to the demands of the legislation right now.

So we support the IAB's decision to continue lobbying MEPs in the hope that the proposed change to the law will be reversed. Vested interest maybe, but we think it's actually in the best interests of the web community as a whole.

Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....

mairving's picture
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They have: 2,256 posts

Joined: Feb 2001

Yeah, well maybe I can lose a little weight.

Actually it is a rather silly little law. A cookie is mostly used for good, though some use it for bad. Doubleclick has probably done more to harm this than any. Plus how are they going to enforce their silly little law. The can only try to control cookies in their own backyard (and good luck on that) but how can they possibly control them from around the world. It is just a typical political response to a problem. Of course, there are programs and browser settings to control cookies also.

Now I personally think that it is probably time to revamp the cookie process. It seems like that there should be no cookies dropped 'third party', i.e. without you actually having to go to the site. Users should also be more aware of what info is being tracked.

Mark Irving
I have a mind like a steel trap; it is rusty and illegal in 47 states

The Webmistress's picture

She has: 5,587 posts

Joined: Feb 2001

My thought was how on earth are they planning to enforce this? With the net being world wide how do they think they can ever enforce it! Will it depend on whether the site is hosted in the EU, or the actual owner is or what??? Stupid!

Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....

They have: 429 posts

Joined: Jul 2000

Uhh.. why do you need a new law? There are already internet abuse laws in place, just throw a big fat lawsuit and Doubleclick and other such advertisers.

Mike Fisher - TWF Conquerer
"Don't trust a spiritual leader that cannot dance."

Busy's picture
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He has: 6,157 posts

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They talk about privacy and stuff but hasnt Microsoft got a link from PC's back to them? when I brought my PC about year and half ago I was asked if I wanted it on or off, I said off, and the salesguy reckons the next version (after win 98se) wouls have this setting on by default.
how many people know its there in the first place?

Also all the spyware out there, and Microsoft with the bug in XP looking for pirated software.

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Learn HTML the ez way - EzHTML.net

Some people are like slinkies, they dont really serve any purpose but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs ...

The Webmistress's picture

She has: 5,587 posts

Joined: Feb 2001

I don't think anyone, or certainly the majority of users, feel we need a new law it's just the EU ministers trying to control everything as usual, like how we must have straight bananas and our apples must be a certain size, etc, etc, etc, etc...........................

Life would be so much easier without them! (Rant over from me! Wink)

Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....

The Webmistress's picture

She has: 5,587 posts

Joined: Feb 2001

This is the latest on the debate over cookies......

Quote: EC telecoms ministers have insisted that cookies will survive despite approving a ban on all forms of electronic spam.

The EC has also decided to give more snooping powers to law enforcement agencies as part of the wide-ranging Communications Data Protection Directive.

The Directive is due in January 2002 and is likely to infuriate the already-beleaguered internet industry.

Under the legislation, cookies can only be used if surfers are first warned of their presence. The issue has provoked intense concern from internet advertising bodies and website owners in recent months.

Although the ban on spam is likely to allay consumer alarm at the rapid increase in unsolicited email and wireless text messages it will cause more distress to an online advertising industry already beset by falling revenues.

A clause in the directive allows a company to send spam to any customer that has made a purchase from it as long as it offers an opt-out link for free removal from its mailing lists.

However, the EC ruling on data retention and snooping is likely to cause more headaches for internet companies.

The legislation proposes that businesses hold on to electronic customer data and phone logs for up to seven years before deletion.

European Council ministers' decision to allow individual countries to make up their own minds about keeping data records is in conflict with the European Parliament which voted to tighten controls over access to private records.

Under existing law, all information must be deleted within 30 days.

The final nod on the Directive will come from the European Parliament before the end of the year.

Julia - if life was meant to be easy Michael Angelo would have painted the floor....